Short staff balacing

[bpat]

Short staves are definitely a balance issue, most notably for the Reaver and Arcane Blade classes. They are very rare so you have to get lucky to get a good one (ideally with the Magewarrior ego, which is also rare), but if you do your character will be super strong. Here are some potential solutions to this.

1) Nerf staff accuracy proc bonus. This should probably happen anyway for all staves regardless of other changes, because it makes Arcane Blade much better with a staff than any other build, which probably isn't supposed to be the case.

2) Remove or severely nerf the Magewarrior ego, and make the Short ego around four or five times as common as it currently is. So you can build around short staves reliably but remove the super strong ones.

3) Remove short ego completely. I think this is overkill, but it is worth mentioning.

I recommend implementing 1) and 2), because I like short staves as a concept but they're problematic in practice because of their rarity and strength.

[Atarlost]

Alternately, make short staves an item type rather than an ego and give them lower stats the way maces have lower stats than greatmauls.

[bpat]

Alternately, make short staves an item type rather than an ego and give them lower stats the way maces have lower stats than greatmauls.

Yeah I forgot about that idea, that is a reasonable solution too.

[Radon26]

all votes go to "separate item" solution.

[Amphouse]

Yeah I think they should just be a separate item type too.

[Micbran]

With overall lower stats or just lower base damage and accuracy proc?

[Radon26]

while we are at staves... it doesn't take a wizard to swing it, but a really strong warrior should still be able to use it effectively as a club right? so why doesn't it have str dammod?
as for channel staff... well, there are already... at least 2 talents (BtF and lethality) that change the dammod, so that shouldn't be a problem.

[Atarlost]

With overall lower stats or just lower base damage and accuracy proc?

A two handed weapon is generally 20% more powerful than a one handed weapon so short staves should be cut by at least 25% on average, but I'm not sure that in the case of damage short staves shouldn't keep the current stats and two handed staves be boosted by 20%. 80% is a low stat mod even for a one handed weapon, much less something two handed and I don't see alchemists putting out enough damage with their staves that a 20% increase would be worrisome.

Staff stats also usually aren't multiples of 4. Maybe damage multiplier will only get a 20% cut because the math is easier but spellpower and spellcrit will get bigger cuts, or maybe the damage multiplier is a big problem and it should get a 40% cut and spellpower and spellcrit not.

In any case I'm pretty sure that apart from reavers and adventurers with reaving combat the biggest issue with short staves is their ego multiplier.

[HousePet]

I vote for remove them entirely.
If you want a one handed mage weapon it should be unique, not just a clone of the two handed one.

[Radon26]

Really? they only work in one specific size and cannot be scaled down? which part of lore states that?
Is there some arcane theory, that forces the whole of it to be proportional to something which is only functional with a "minimal mass"?
Or that if it was smaller, it would burn itself out from the energies being channelled through it?
Or maybe yet another, there wouldn't be enough space on the surface for the runes and other things that make it works?
How about something dumb like "the wood for stave only grows in one specific size".
Any of that? any?

[Micbran]

Because you can't use a short staff as a walking stick! Bam!

[Radon26]

0,0
*gasp*

are you saying these don't work because its short too?!
poor people all around the globe were using canes for for centuries, without knowing they were ineffective? that;s a big news! to papers with it!

[Micbran]

To be honest, I've always imagined short staves to be "wand" size (like length of forearm) and I've never heard of a mage ever use a cane.

[Radon26]

really? fairly certain there was a wizard in the DC universe that used cane.
if you mean in ToME, well, it doesn't have to be cane shaped.

you said that short can't be used as a walking stick, but a cane is perfectly functional.
so assuming the orbs on the top of the staff aren't loose, or corrosive tot he touch, it should be perfectly functional in that size.

[Strongpoint]

I kinda hate short staves because they were the cause of all staves nerf some versions back. I want 100% mag and changable melee damage back

Ideally I would love to see something like:

1) Remove short staves
2) Return back changaeble melee damage via command stuff
3) Accuracy bonus for staves= +%resistance penetration
4) 80% mag\40% strenght for regular staves (would be cool if 80% mag would come in elemental damage and 40% in physical damage. Maybe 70/30 if 80/40 is too strong)
5) 100% mag for channel staff