Random Afflicted Thoughts

[HousePet]

General themes:
Overwhelming emotions like hatred, rage or despair.
Curses, debuffs, pushing past natural limits with raw willpower.
Corruption of the mind.
Madness and insanity.
Loss of self control.

Hate:
Make it regen/decay to 50%? Hate sustains would lower this default value.
Gain hate from taking damage instead of/as well as when you make kills?
If your hate goes over 100, you get a free Rampage like effect? Maybe an effect when you hit 0?

Mechanics:
Should Doomed have an Unnatural Mind talent instead of Unnatural Body?
Could make two styles of talent mechanics, one for giving in to fury, one for giving in to despair.
Change Gestures to a class category or change it to a Cunning generic based around unarmed mental combat, mindpower monk style?
Is scaling talent power with current hate a good mechanics?
Is Cursed (heavy fighter that draws power from the deaths they cause) too similar to Reaver? Reducing the hate gain from kills would help differentiate them. Or maybe they should be fast fighters instead?
On that note, should there be another Afflicted class?

Elements:
Doomed use physical, mind and darkness (while their shadows also use fire and lightning).
Cursed just use weapon damage. Is that a problem?
Rage flavoured elements could be physical, fire, lightning or arcane.
Despair flavoured elements could be darkness, cold, nature or blight. (possibly temporal?)
Mind damage is more neutral and ubiquitous.

Have made a quick addon to try out a self balancing hate bar: http://te4.org/games/addons/tome/hateexperiment
It makes your hate gravitate towards 50, at a rate dependent on how far away from 50 you are. Resting stops itself at about 40, so don't worry about it autoresting for ages.
Since this is a quick addon it also completely disables all hate regen from kills, including item bonuses.

[Radon26]

arcane and blight are magical damage, and right now in lore afflicted are members of zigur.
at best you could make the arcane be manaburn, but that would be situational, and not all of the afflicted are automatically zigurants.

as for blight... hmm... nah, i cant see it.

also, no. reaver is not similar to cursed AT ALL. its not a class that is similar, its the resource.
cursed uses techniques and mental afflictions in combat.
Reaver is basically a mage, which hit things every time his spell take a turn.
cursed afflictins confuse or fear enemies, making it difficult for them to act.
reaver's deseas does damage, and can use other spells to amplify their damage, as well as increase the spread.

[cttw]

The hate restpoint being above zero and the gestures as class talent would be great improvements.

[HousePet]

Elements do not need to be tied to their power source. Manaclash for example. Or Rogues doing nature damage, Mindslayers doing physical, etc...
Currently Archmage is the only class that uses arcane damage. Totally underutilised.

[Radon26]

you: "Elements do not need to be tied to their power source. Manaclash for example".
me: "you could make the arcane be manaburn, but that would be situational, and not all of the afflicted are automatically zigurants."

arcane blade's arcane destruction can also trigger arcane damage. which is the only tiniest bit of arcane that he does, despite its name, but i believe i already mentioned that elsewhere.

rogue's nature damage makes sense, because he is using POISONS, it would be weired it it was anything else.
unless you argue that blight could be used.
as it goes for arcane damage, yes it is tied to the source, except in case of manaburn, you are not the source.
you are using the energy of your enemy against him. it does not work without magic, it is tied to the source.

[malboro_urchin]

Do you think the Doomed scaling is alright? I always have trouble getting one started, and have yet to see where the class really gets good. Its talent scaling has always felt rather weak to me, and I know that Blast just got nerfed (dunno if the pre-1.3 behavior was intended or not)

[grayswandir]

If your hate goes over 100, you get a free Rampage like effect? Maybe an effect when you hit 0?

I like the idea of doomed literally turning into shadows when they run out of hate. Like hate is the only thing sustaining their physical body.

[HousePet]

as it goes for arcane damage, yes it is tied to the source, except in case of manaburn, you are not the source.
you are using the energy of your enemy against him. it does not work without magic, it is tied to the source.

Why should arcane be different to other elements? Doomed do physical damage with their mind. Archmages do physical damage with magic. Just repeating the current situation isn't much of a justification.
Manaclash does arcane damage to Vim and Celestial energy users, and they don't use mana or do arcane damage.

Scaling is likely a bit weird, but I'm randomly thoughting about general things, not numbers or specific talents.

[Radon26]

"Doomed do physical damage with their mind." have you ever heard of telekinesis?
as for an archmage throwing boulders... explain to me why it can't?

i expected that you would at least said "anorithils do mind" or something like that but no... you come up with doomed and archmage doing physical... i am disappointed in you.

just like thermal and lightning are energies, so is magic, but its a different kind, that only archmages harnessed.
what "mana clash" is doing is causing that energy to go out of control and harm its user.

vim, i would say is "impure" mana, mixed within the blood of their victims.
as for celestial... dunno, still magic!

[HousePet]

Anorithils don't do mind damage. So why would I say that?

So if a Doomed can do physical damage with its mind, why couldn't it do Arcane damage?

[Radon26]

because so far, arcane damage require an magicall energy (arcane resource), just like fire and cold represents high and low of the thermal energy.

as for anorithils, last time i checked i am pretty sure they had a single mind damage talent in the twilight tree. Although, that might me outdated info.

edit
yup, here it is
Mind blast (talent)
Category Type
-Celestial
Category
-Twilight
Requirements
Level (8,9,10,11,12) Magic (28,30,32,34,36)
Use Mode: Activated | Range: Melee/Personal | Cost: 15 Negative | Cooldown: 15 : Travel Speed: - | Use Speed: 1 turn
Description
Let out a mental cry that shatters the will of your targets within radius 3, confusing (15–45%cTL:60% to act randomly) them for a duration of 2–12cS as (0.05 * Cun * Talent Level) varies from 0–10.
The duration will improve with your Cunning.

[edge2054]

Despair could be darkness, cold, temporal

Rage could be physical, fire, lightning

I could see both classes dealing mind damage though I would expect a lot more of this from doomed.

I agree with Raldon26. Blight and Arcane are magical.

[grayswandir]

Weren't Doomed originally fallen mages at one point? I could see them getting some arcane.

[HousePet]

So yeah, Anorithil have no mind damage talents.

If lack of precedence was a good argument against anything, new content would never get made.

I was just thinking that disintegrating someone with pure rage could use arcane damage, as it doesn't really fit with any other damage element.

[Radon26]

they mages? if they were mages at any point there is no sign of that left as far as i can see.
maybe some lore or earlier versoins, but right now, whole of the magic they use, is hidden in the shadows.
and shadows btw, are enslaved spirits of their victims, which might have been mages.

edit
i have coppied the talent from the wiki. "just no" seems like you didn't read it.
as for "disintegrating with pure rage" uhm...
they can be ripped to tiny pieces with telekinesis...
their particles can explosively accelerated with thermal energy... (spontaneous combustion)
you can send a bit of their matter to another dimension... (temporal)
you can take away all the energy that keep atomic bonds together... not sure what damage that would be.

look, the only problem i realy have with doomed using arcane, is that arcane is a magic specific damage, and zigur would not accept anyone, that has ANYTHING to do with magic. shadows using magic is already a bit of a stretch. the only thing that they do that invomve magic, is mana clash and the oozemancers talent.