Class Idea: Channeler a multi-ranged caster

[Planetus]

This fundamental idea is pretty basic: a class who's entire power is based on tapping into and channeling the power of the items he has equipped.

The details, though, get kind of complicated. I'm imagining that the class would have access to some talents that channel an item's power source out, into caster attacks defined largely by the power source and element. The element, though, is hard to define procedurally. Should it be based purely on power source, and each power source does damage equally in every viable element (i.e. arcane powered items do a whole rainbow of damage, while items powered by anti-magic powers do only nature-based damage?), or should you be able to pick a particular element from that myriad, or should damage type be based on the egos that come from that power (i.e. a ring of fire would give you fire attacks, but what about something that gives more generic boosts, like a ring of the savior?), or should the element be randomly assigned from that myriad when you pick up the item, like curses from the Curse tree? Also, how do multiple power sources/egos interact in this?

I'm also thinking that each attack talent would vary in more than just damage type depending on what you're channeling. For example, channeling something crafted by a master would use physical power for all attacks, would have short-ranged multi-hit attacks, and could apply various physically-themed debuffs, like stun, daze, and knockback. On the other hand, something powered by nature would be mindpower-based, be medium ranged attacks with DoT/splash themes, and could do nature-themed debuffs like poison, pin, and maybe silence. There could be some overlap between these (i.e. both nature and arcane power can cause burning, both nature and anti-magic can cause silence, both arcane and psionic give long-ranged attacks, etc).

I'm also imagining the class trees would be elementally themeless and fluid, with each talent being usable with every possibly item, just producing different details depending on source. So, for example, maybe something like:

Channeled Attacks:
Channel Thrust - Active - Channel a burst of force from an item, dealing damage to a single target in Line of Action. *Details given based on currently channeled item. I'm guessing there would be an instant-cooldown, instant-activate sustain that lets you select an item to channel. Maybe certain power sources would make it a beam instead of a bolt?*

Channel Wave - Active - Channel a wave of force from an item, dealing damage in a cone. *Details given based on currently channeled item.*

Channel Blast - Active - Channel a blast of power from an item, dealing damage in a ball. *Details given based on currently channeled item, possibly including whether the ball is self-centered or ranged, LoA or LoS, instant or projectile, etc.*

Forceful Channeling - Passive/Sustained - Every attack from Channeled Attacks has a X% chance to inflict EACH status effect of the item type: *list given based on item. I'm imagining the chance would be reasonably low, but since it's trying separately for each status effect, you get decent odds of applying SOMETHING.*

Channeled Defense:
Channeled Ward - Sustained - Create (2-6) wards of *channeled item* element, completely blocking a single attack of that element. A new ward will be spawned every X turns, up to the maximum

*Not sure what should go here*

Channeled Aegis - Sustained - Reinforce your own body with channeled power, granting *bonuses depend on item channeled, probably themed with status resists and bonuses to healmod, life regen, resource regen, speeds, saves, and the like*.

*Not sure what else*

Channel Switching (Locked) - a tree based on forcefully channeling two items at once, destabilizing one for some time:
Unstable Vortex - Active - Temporarily channel a second item, destabilizing the first for (15-5) turns, but creating an unstable vortex of energy at the target location. *Radius and range are based on the two items, but radius always equals at least range, so you can always place it just beyond yourself.* The vortex will deal damage of *both types*, have a chance to inflict *debuffs of both types*, and knocking each target in a random direction each turn. This vortex will last for (2-6 turns).

Switch Jump - Active - Use the instability between two channeled items to jump to a new location. This will destabilize the first item for (15-5 turns). *Jump details are based on items channeled. Some may be long-distance teleports, some short-distance precise leaps, some will let you target enemies and NPCs, some will move everything in a radius.*

*Not sure what goes here*

Destabilize Item - Active - Select an item from your inventory and intentionally and dangerously destabilize it, then throw it. The item will explode with devastating impact at the target location, dealing high damage based on the appropriate power, every status effect appropriate for the item type, radius and field effects based on item type. *I'm imagining a tool tip in the selection menu would tell you what effects the item would produce. This destroys the item. At talent level 5, the basic material of the item survives, but all enchantments and bonuses are lost. *I.e. it produces a white item of that type and tier.*


Of course, the fluidly shifting theme of these trees means just 2-3 trees could provide you with every single desirable effect, so the class will probably want some other combat trees like Combat Expertise. I'm also imagining that the class would use a magic-neutral resource like Stamina or Psi so any character could choose to go magic or anti-magic, and the arcane/unknown powered items would probably cause all your talents to check anti-magic disruption.

[Dao Zeti]

To raise talent diversity, each talent could work with just one inventory slot type (FINGER, HAND, MAINHAND, etc). This way, it would be easier to determine the possible attributes towards attack/defense, also by looking at possible egoes they can be generated with. E.g. BELTs could go with defensive talents, as they naturally come with egos that provide damage shields/hp/resists, HAND-Slot-items could go with talents that are rangelimited [personal/1 grid] and so on.

Those talents could auto-enchant (curse) the items they channel power from to mark them as catalysts. Any time a channeling talent is used, the correspondent slot is being checked. If there is an item, that hasn't been used together with a talent, it gets a power-variable associated. Each time this item is being used as catalyst, the power-variable is being reduced by one. When it reaches zero, the item itself vanishes (has been depleted).

[twas Brillig]

ToME does a lot to avoid consumables, though. Especially given how rare good gear can be, balancing this would be a nightmare to make up for the gear destruction without trivializing encounters. I think a curse-style system makes a lot of sense, but I'd argue it would be better to let equipment recharge (slowly!) in the inventory/second equipment set.

Alternatively, to make equipment destruction viable, we could take a note from the Forge Knight's book and give them ways to permanently buff up gear. It'd need to be good, but not great, giving an incentive to use artifacts in really desperate situations.

If it was primarily an unarmed attacker, it would have fewer problems eating weapons for their channeling effects. Basically it'd turn everything into some kind of wand.

I can see the Swift Hands prodigy either being nigh-mandatory for this class (which would suggest dex-scaling for niceness), or needing to be rolled into the class by default.

Actually, this could very naturally evolve as a curse-centric Afflicted character. Give effects based on curse and item slot. Some talents could just care about the curse and be channeled through different items, others would focus on specific items (like you said, belt for shields, weapons for attacks).

[Planetus]

Yeah, I definitely don't want to see this class consuming every item a character comes across. I put in that last destabilized talent as the only one to truly consume an item as a powerful talent in exchange for great cost.

I'd also like to avoid the afflicted tree, because I don't want the class to depend on a decaying resource that they have to refill before they can do squat. Personally, I hate the hate resource. It's nothing but annoying.

As for basing talents on item slots, that could be good, but it would mean a LOT of talents that practically NEED to get maxed unless each one talent could operate on a variety of slots. Maybe the defensive tree can only work on armor, hats, and boots, the offensive slots can only work on mainhand, offhand, and rings, and a new tactical tree can only work on cloaks, gloves, and necklaces. But then, if all these use the same talent to select an item, then you'd need to re-select an item EVERY TIME you switched approach. That seems even more pointlessly annoying than the hate resource. That would suggest, then, that each tree has it's own channeling talent, which means you'd have three different, but functionally identical, channeling talents you'd have to navigate through all the time. Also, I don't see how this would make the process of defining attributes any easier. All items have the same set of power sources, so that wouldn't be a problem, and the set of egos specific to each item type wouldn't be much of a problem to me. You'd just need a one-off list of elements and effects tied to each ego (and probably the elements and effects would be a constant set, so just tie the element to an ego). And lastly, if we go with that semi-randomly-set process, egos don't really even matter much.

In final conclusion, that means I want to avoid all of your ideas, Dao, though it's nothing personal, I promise. Sorry

To settle things a bit more, I'm proposing sets something like:

Crafted by a master - Can be physical, fire, nature damage, physical power based, range/radius 3, deals 3-5 hits, depending on talent level/item tier, can produce stun, daze, knockback, burning.

Arcane powered - Can be fire, cold, lightning, arcane, acid damage, spellpower based, range 10, radius 3-7 depending on talent level/item tier, deals high damage in a single hit, can produce silence, flameshock, burning, freeze.

Unknown powered - Can be fire, acid, blight, darkness, light damage, spellpower based, range 7, radius 1-5 depending on talent level/item tier, deals moderate damage with resistance/shield penetration based on spellpower, can produce burning, acid splash, diseases (any, but only one), blind.

Nature powered - Can be fire, cold, lightning, acid, nature damage, physical power based, range 5, radius 3, deals moderate damage with defense/armor/power reduction, can produce acid splash, freeze, stun, blind.

Anti-Magic powered - Can be arcane, mind, darkness, nature damage, mindpower based, range 3, radius 7, deals moderate damage with manaburn which only hits enemies, can produce silence, confusion, blind, daze.

Psionic powered - Can be mind, darkness, physical, fire, lightning damage, mindpower based, range 10, radius 3-7 depending on talent level/item tier, deals moderately high damage which only hits enemies, can produce confusion, daze, fears, knockback.

Any major damage types, special attack features, or significant status effects I'm missing from this list? I'd like this class to be able to do any of the non-specialized features, though they'd likely have to select a stat/ego build based on only a handful of them.

[Radon26]

1, what's the the base theme for this class? if there is one?
its supposed to work with anti magic. which means its not magic.
Swift hands and dex based? i think it would work if it was made psionic with WILLPOWER being secondary.

2. as for what to channel...
Why only one at a time?
why not have it be like "channel staff", except with themes instead of elements.
-(on rethink) when you command staff, you get to chose a type of magic, before type.
-so "theme instead of theme" rather than "theme instead of damage type" and then reshuffle the damage types.
-edit- or we could leave the damage random, just for fun.

with XX base damage, and +5% per tier of items with the selected theme.
so if i had was dual wielding t3 of projection dager, and t4 dagger of torment, plus t2 gauntless wit Psi theme.
that will give me total of 45% effectiveness increase, and can potentially go up to 75%, if they are all t5.

there may be also a late game talent that increase theses values a little bit.
but that may require a few lvls gap in between, to avoid player maxing it out as soon as he gets it, and having a ridiculous damage early.

[Planetus]

Radon, the base theme of this class is channeling power out of powered items and into a force projected from yourself. I got the idea from several animes and then a dream where the hero channels power from special items. Get a ring of lightning and you can call lightning on your enemies. Get a helmet of the mist and you can summon up mists to confuse and blind. Etc.

I want to theme it on a non-magical, non-anti-magical resource (stamina, psi, will) so that players can choose to go any direction they want. I also want different forces to be based on different powers (physical, mental, spell) so that players can choose what stats to invest in. It also means that probably no player will get good use out of all items, though, as investing heavily in physical power (Str), spellpower (Mag), AND mind power (Wil) is already pretty well spread. Adding in Cun (for crits and added mind power), Con (for HP, given that physical power talents are probably pretty close ranged), and Dex (if we make any of them rely on accuracy) seriously pops this class over the potential of a normal character. Additionally, if they choose to invest in Str for physical power based items, they can easily unlock and handle armor and shields, giving them both decent defense and more items to choose from.

Additionally, I want all normal status effects available (not specialized ones like Bleak Outcome or the necromancer Doom spell), but all based on one power or another, and randomly chosen per attack. So it's again a very fluid, chancy class. Basically, I want this class to be open potential. Make it anything you want. But you can't seriously make it everything you want.

The idea of channeling multiple items of the same power source together is interesting, stacking their power, but it needs to be balanced based on the odds you could get a decently useful item of the same power source for every slot at T5. That seems like something of a long shot to me, though players may sacrifice 'best' egos to get something that has that chosen power source (i.e. settle for a lesser T5 item of the right power source). All in all, channeling one vs channeling many comes down to a balance change. Channel one with high power, or channel 5 at a time, with 1/4 the power each (bonus given for difficulty of getting 5 good items of the same power source.

As for damage types, yeah, not sure what to do with those. Should the player be able to choose from appropriate damage types for the power source, or should it be random per hit, or randomly assigned on pick-up, or multi-damage?

And also, lore-wise, I'm thinking that Channel Staff and Wards are mages' attempts to mimic this power.

[Radon26]

"Radon, the base theme of this class is channeling power out of powered items and into a force projected from yourself."

When I asked what's the best theme for the class, i was thinking that, anyone can use trinkets and benefit from passive bonuses, but it take a bit more talent to over-tap them, so i a mere technique would not do. magic and anti magic don't work together so you can't force player to be based on either. Having it a partially Psionic power would make sense thematically, and does not cause any problems with other 'theme'.


"Additionally, I want all normal status effects available (not specialized ones like Bleak Outcome or the necromancer Doom spell), but all based on one power or another, and randomly chosen per attack. So it's again a very fluid, chancy class. Basically, I want this class to be open potential. Make it anything you want. But you can't seriously make it everything you want."


"The idea of channeling multiple items of the same power source together is interesting, stacking their power, but it needs to be balanced based on the odds you could get a decently useful item of the same power source for every slot at T5. That seems like something of a long shot to me, though players may sacrifice 'best' egos to get something that has that chosen power source (i.e. settle for a lesser T5 item of the right power source). All in all, channeling one vs channeling many comes down to a balance change. Channel one with high power, or channel 5 at a time, with 1/4 the power each (bonus given for difficulty of getting 5 good items of the same power source"

why not let the player chose how he channels?

As for damage types, yeah, not sure what to do with those. Should the player be able to choose from appropriate damage types for the power source, or should it be random per hit, or randomly assigned on pick-up, or multi-damage?

"And also, lore-wise, I'm thinking that Channel Staff and Wards are mages' attempts to mimic this power."

you mean this class was made by shertul? Personally I think it would be other way around.


NEW IDEA!!

base stats: DEX-CUN

keep your single channel, but also you can add another passive ability
make it a late ability which upgrades very slowly
start at lvl 22 and upgrades every 4 lvls?

resonance: (base stat: cun)
whenever you tap the power of an item, you cause a resonance between the items of the same theme, amplifying the resulting power.
all other items will not provide X% bonus per tier of item. (current bonus xx%)
the bonus will increase with your cunning stat.


as for lore
i would like to say that it was started by a rogue who was interested in magic, but had no one to teach him. so he improvised.
He collected many magical items, thinking their presence would somehow make magic easier.
And then something unexpected happened when he combined a few artefacts, gaining the ability to manipulate forces imbued within the item.
the ability however has not strictly magical, and over generations was perfected, and able to use all kinds of powers.

btw, this class will come with a guaranteed mindstar potential, (as in, already unlocked talent?or at least available)
also, i will look at how to put gems with that class, and what do you think about what i wrote so far?
i probably want to make this class something epic, but i really cant think of it anything else than "improvised".

[Planetus]

Radon, I'm getting a little confused reading your posts. I'm thinking either you're mis-reading me or I'm mis-reading you.

Radon - "magic and anti magic don't work together so you can't force player to be based on either."
This is part of what confused me. I'm not forcing the player to be based on either magic or antimagic. I'm actively trying to avoid that. So that means no mana, vim, paradox, positive energy, negative energy, or equilibrium base for the power (and yeah, not souls either, just in case anyone was thinking that). That leaves stamina, psi, hate, or something new. I don't like hate. Stamina would suggest this is a kind of chi ability or something, which is kind of how I originally imagined it. Psi would suggest it's a psionic ability, which works.

Basing the class on psionics works for me, though I think it would suggest a slightly different origin from what you suggested. Maybe a yeek once tried to tap into the inner powers stored in psionically powered items. This saw some very limited success and the yeek wasn't cast out for what he did, but because of the little success he had, he turned to other powers, trying to tap into them the same way. This is what caused the yeek culture to cast him out, because he was tapping into and tampering with dark and terrifying powers they thought could kill them. Being cast out, he was stumbled upon by someone (no idea who, what race, etc) in Maj'Eyal. Impressed by the yeek's ability to channel powers from both arcane and psionic items, this person gave the yeek a home and studied under him. Many generations later, the techniques have been refined. Or, y'know, something like that.

Radon - "why not let the player chose how he channels?"
This is part of what confused me. I'm not sure if you're just disagreeing with me limiting it to one item at a time (that's ok), or suggesting that the player should be able to dynamically choose how to channel (i.e. channel one item and get full power from it, channel several and blend their powers). The first I disagree with (obviously), and the second sounds... complicated. Interesting, though. It might have some potential.

Radon - "you mean this class was made by shertul? Personally I think it would be other way around."
The other way around? You mean the Sher'Tul were made by this class? So this class was made by the gods? Interesting.
Yes, I think I'm mis-reading you here, but I'm not sure what you meant. Why do you think this would have been made by the Sher'Tul? What do you mean by 'the other way around'?

As for the NEW IDEA, I don't want to base the whole class's stat's on any single stat set, though if you're just suggesting this talent/tree would be based on those stats... I'd lean Cun.

Radon - "whenever you tap the power of an item, you cause a resonance between the items of the same theme, amplifying the resulting power.
all other items will not provide X% bonus per tier of item. (current bonus xx%)"
I think you didn't want that 'not'. This is an interesting idea, though. Maybe if you channel only one item, it resonates with all other items of that power source, increasing all your talents by X%. If you tap into more than one of the same power source, you decrease the resonance, but can cause more status effects or select a second element or something? If you tap into items with different power sources, what? Do you just loose any resonance? Is there any interference? A chance of odd and dangerous things happening, like everything that can pop up with paradox?

[Radon26]

1) base theme.
i did not suggest you would force someone (at least not intentionally) to it, i just said that its obviously not an option to chose one of the two as default.

1.5) the rogue had a psionic talent? you never know what sleeps within. The items just somehow helped awaken it.
also, you MIGHT HAVE missed the part when its changed over generations.

2) method of channelling.
i am unsure myself. obviously i like the idea of channelling all at once, but i see that being more specific also has

3)
when i said other way around,i meant this:
"And also, lore-wise, I'm thinking that Channel Staff and Wards are mages' attempts to mimic this power."
if the class was BEFORE mages, then who made it? shertool! obviously...

4) new idea...
well, i guess i messed up that part.
It just seems right to use cun, for the ability to drain power of items, and channel it in different ways.
As for dex, well, ... i can't find it now but i am pretty sure you said you want to it be a technique or something? and dex fits way better then str.
but either way, stats will be decided when organising the talents into trees more precisely.

"not". it was supposed to be now...

[Planetus]

1.5) Nah, I didn't miss that part, I just absorbed it into my version.

3) Before Channel Staff and Wards doesn't mean before mages. It just means before mages came up with those ideas (and only alchemists get Channel Staff, and no class natively gets Wards, so that suggests those skills didn't necessarily come before Archmages or primitive mages came up).

4) Cun meets the requirements for both a psionic ability and a spiritual-chi-focused ability. Cleverly figure out how to do it more effectively. Dex... doesn't seem to fit for any of the requirements for a purely non-physical ability. And it being a technique doesn't require it to be based on any physical stat.


So, for 2) Channeling, if you can only channel one item at a time, but instantly switch between any items you have, you can use any power source on any turn for any ability that isn't on cooldown, but that also suggests that there isn't much of a way to disrupt that channeling (except for the destabilizing skills). Channeling multiple power sources at once could suggest that there's a cooldown, either on the talent or on the item, though it doesn't require it. Synergy between items of the same power source can fit with either. So, mechanically, this probably comes down to damage types and talent properties. With only one power source channeled at a time, you're fixed to the influences of that one. With multiple channeled at a time, we could do some kind of fusion of them. That would probably make everything more complicated. It could also be more fun, especially with instability interactions.

I'm also wondering if we wanted to give each item a rechargable charge (as opposed to permanently draining the item) to force the player to cycle some? I'm thinking give the items something like the demon seed HP, which get's drained every time a talent is used while channeling it, but recharges a little every turn the player isn't channeling it.

[Radon26]

1.5) the rogue in my story was a yeek maybe?

3) if mages could produce wards like that, they would sue "spawn 10 wards" instead of "activate 100damage shield".
HOWEVER there is one instance of wards being used by corrupter or a Reaver in a class talent, so maybe there is something in it.

4) "a healthy spirit lives in a healthy body...", and stuff.

in the game, there are 5 examples of channelling involving items in the whole game
-solipsist gets bonus mind power from certain themed items
-alchemist can channel staves.
-arcane blade can channel spells through his weapon (or lack of one...)
-brawler can cause an effect, based on the gloves. changing gloves, give another effect.
-pretty much anyone can use mind stars
1 synergy, 2 common channels, 1 unrefined, and 1 flexible. 3 of those involve bashing the item against things.

I don't know how you see this, but to me, it would fit well if it was more "unrefined" kind of class, that is accessible to potentially anyone.
making it pure mind would give it "elite" taste, which doesn't seem to fit for someone who depends on themes scattered around, rather than his/her own. (alright, am i writing nonsense here? if so, just ignore that part)



way of channelling again... lets put together what we said sofar
-chose 1 item you channel. i am not going to argue about it, because there is no reason against it, at all.
-channelling resonance. effect increased with more items of the same kind. may be primary, or may be a bonus.
-category separation. so, few of the slots does work together but then the other few are separated.
-destabilization. items may go poof if you are not careful.
-you can use each chanell with different skills. which makes this class really flexible.

so the separate groups would be (?)
offensive - main hand, off hand, gloves, left ring, right ring.
deffensive - helm, armour, boots, cloak, belt.
utility - amulet, lite and misc, shots(or alchemical gems? lets just give him that ability for lols?).
or at least thats how i think they would be distributed.
(i just got idea but i will say that later)

Because of the separation, you end up actually channelling 3 items at once? or do you need to change channel to use other abilities?
A special talent gives you a bonus, based on the other items in the same category. but lets make the resonate a little differently?
Changing channel takes a turn, but items will deplete if you don't. hmm another talent that reduce the time?
There are a few talents that do damage (and possibly additional effects) based on the item you are channelling.
Each category, have their own talents that can't be used with channels of other categories. or you can make them able, but with a twist.
hmmm I think that's all?

so, the idea i mentioned earlier.
i was thinking about ability to enchant items somehow, and my attention came to shots.
I was thinking about having the character able to throw them to cause an effect, but they are already supposed to work with slings.
How about, if you channel them, using any of the offensive talents became a range attack, and work a little different?
But if so, it would make it an offensive slot while its utility... or you could give them entire class tree to specialise in slings...

if the talents would become ranged...
channel wave would become AoE with a little less radius.
channel thurst would probably stay the same, except it adds the damage of the shots.
channel blast would become single target DoT?
(if there was a beam)
beam would stay a beam, but it would also place some status effect on the enemies adjacent to the path (kind of like biting gale aoe?)