Displacement Shield Checked First OR First In, First Used

[Steven Aus]

Currently Displacement Shield is not often very worthwhile taking, since it hardly ever gets used. Suggestion: either make a check on that shield first, or make the order shields are checked and possibly reduced dependent on the order they went up (probably first one to be put up would be the first to be checked). If shields of one type can combine when a new one is created, there would need to a rule for how that is handled, but other than that, the concept of "first in, first used" would allow tailoring of when shields are called up to mitigate damage, and allow players more customization and increased tactics when using multiple types of damage shields.

[0player]

Damage Shields, 'cept Barrier, tend to be short-living. To make the most out of them, you always want them early in the stack.
Time Shield does more good the more it gets damage. We want it early in the stack.
Displacement Shield effectively functions as a dampener of rate with wich a shield gets used (with a limiter of course). It is wise to put such a dampener over a fat shield.
The fat shield in question happens to be Disruption Shield.

[Steven Aus]

Well, I would be happy with any solution that got Displacement Shield actually being used and actually worth using. As long as the details supported that, I would be happy.

[Effigy]

It's true that damage shields are usually short-lived, but they have limited absorption that you want to stretch out as much as possible. Displacement Shield could help accomplish that, if it triggered before the damage was applied to other shields. As it stands, DS is rarely worth the investment because if you're playing an Archmage and your normal damage shield goes down, you're either about to die or you're about to create a new damage shield. Consequently, DS will never activate for an Archmage that is playing optimally. The same is pretty much true of the other classes that have access to Spell/Conveyance. Maybe a Shadowblade could use it? I don't know.

It's a general rule that damage mitigation effects should be applied before eHP is reduced. Imagine if resists didn't reduce damage applied to your damage shield, only to your hit points. Obviously, any class that relies on damage shields wouldn't care about resists in this case. This is the situation Displacement Shield is in right now. I can't see any reason not to make DS get checked before other damage shields, unless we're afraid that would be overpowered. But if that combo is considered overpowered, I'd say just scrap the DS skill and replace it with something that's actually useful. I would want DS to apply even before Disruption Shield, although some people might disagree with me there.

[Delmuir]

I'm no expert player but I generally do the calculus this way:

If Displacement Shield NEVER triggers, what's the point of investing in it?

Well, I've gone entire games and never had it trigger so I don't bother wasting a turn on it any longer. From my perspective, the thing that would make me actually use it would be to make it instant-cast.

At this point, the only reason I would have cause to use it is against a boss or tough rare but it's only worthwhile later in a fight… early in a fight, it's not reliable enough to justify wasting a turn on. After all, your attack spells are 100% to hit and your shields are 100% to defend; why waste a turn on something that isn't?

However, if it was instant-cast, it would be worth using…

[edge2054]

I think Displacement Shield should be checked first as well, even before Time Shield. A shield that 'might' work should be the first layer of the onion being peeled. Making it the last means that it's only useful when you have no other shields active and even then, it's a chance rather than guaranteed.

It's a neat talent and fun when it works right. It's just so situational now that most people won't put points into it.

[Steven Aus]

DarkGod, would you consider making the changes suggested in the post before this one?

[Mex]

Displacement shield is pretty bad anyway due to it being in the generic section. It needs a considerable buff to be honest, it's not even instant cast I believe. Being the first shield to be hit would be a start and tbh should have been like this to begin with.

[edge2054]

Yeah, it's not instant cast, has a long cooldown, and a long duration.

It was a fun talent a long time ago when mages could target it through walls and didn't have time shield or aegis.

Honestly though I don't know that mages really *need* another shield.

What if it was an instant buff, a sustain, or a passive that gave the character damage_shield_reflect? Basically weaponizing your damage shields (like Rune of Reflection).

[Effigy]

I think turning it into a damage reflection mechanic would be cool. While active/sustained, anytime a damage shield or similar effect absorbs damage, X% of the absorbed amount would be reflected to the attacker.

[Mex]

Whilst it would be nice I don't think Archmage needs further buffs.

[edge2054]

Whilst it would be nice I don't think Archmage needs further buffs.

You brought up how it's not even instant. So even if it was made to be the first layer of the onion we're still looking at a 35 cooldown, 25 turn duration shield with a chance of reflecting damage that costs a turn to use and costs generic points people might prefer to put into other talents.

The other option I see is to just make it instant. It would still be worse than Time Shield in most ways but at least it would let players who want to skip temporal access to a decent shield.

Of course, many people just grab both.

Which would definitely be a buff, as what Archmages really don't need is another instant damage shield.

[Steven Aus]

Whilst it would be nice I don't think Archmage needs further buffs.

You brought up how it's not even instant. So even if it was made to be the first layer of the onion we're still looking at a 35 cooldown, 25 turn duration shield with a chance of reflecting damage that costs a turn to use and costs generic points people might prefer to put into other talents.

The other option I see is to just make it instant. It would still be worse than Time Shield in most ways but at least it would let players who want to skip temporal access to a decent shield.

What does DarkGod think about one of these suggestions?

[HousePet]

What does DarkGod think of thread necromancy?

[Steven Aus]

Well, he'd a DarkGod, so maybe he does some Thread Necromancy in his spare time. I really don't see what's so wrong with adding a post to a thread if someone is interested. It's better than starting another thread on the same topic. Anyway I'm interested in an answer to the question, which is why I asked, strangely enough.