Challenge Modes - Ideas and Feedback

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

Simply put, this is to discuss the idea of adding challenge modes, for additional difficulty modifiers, without requiring that we create a new difficulty (thus bloating achievements by another 300 or so per difficulty). Ideally, the underlying structure would have a button on the birth screen (like the one for custom tiles) labeled 'challenges'. Clicking it would bring up a dialog box with a series of tickboxes, one for each potential challenge. You tick off the ones you want to play, and it modifies your game accordingly, for whatever difficulty/deathmode you choose to play on. Some early ideas for this were:

'No True-arts' (Yellows, obvious exclusion for storyline critical pieces like the Staff, Orbs, and maybe the rod) - Would prevent the spawning of any yellow, for the duration of your game, barring the required exceptions.

'No Artifacts' - Extension of the above, would also prevent orange (randart) items from spawning.

'Limited stats' - Only 2 stat points awarded per level.

'No prodigies' - Does what it says on the tin, you would be unable to acquire prodigies.

'Enhanced Rares' - All rares get an extra class, or inflated talent points.



There's a wide variety of challenges that could be done, and maybe you could even choose to play several at once, on whatever difficulty you wanted. This provides the ones who want more difficulty some options (and adds fun replay modes) without creating entire new difficulty levels. Achievements for them could be similarly simple, as it would only add 1 achievement per mode, rather then duplicating an entire damn list like a new difficulty would.

Thoughts on the idea? Ideas for more challenges? Feedback on existing challenges?

[supermini]

I'd roll 'no yellows' into 'no artifacts' because it's not really much of a challenge if it's just yellows and to prevent bloating.

I'd also merge limited stat points and no prodigies. Insane+ already awards less stat points so that would be an auto-challenge done, almost.

Here's some actual ideas: 'Level 36 cap' - what it says
'Equip only weapon(s) and armor' - what it says
'Pray to the random gods' - all talents by all creatures have a 1% chance of failing
zone level is randomly rolled to be from -50% to +50% of normal

[Marson]

'Near-sighted' - sight range limited to 5
'Mr. Magoo the Masochist' - sight range of 1
'Addle-brained' - permanent Confusion
'Sickly Constitution' - HP and HP bonuses are halved
'Crank' - resting does not heal; any turn that is just a move/rest/do-nothing damages you for ?% MaxHP

[The Revanchist]

The idea sounds pretty good, and I like the format you've opted for, Crim.

But Marson, how is Crank supposed to be... survivable?

[AlexMdle]

Ohh, ohhh, ohhhhh!!

Speedrun Mode: Time's a-ticking?
Outside of world map, every step counts. You get a limited amount of turns before you die. Killing bosses extends your life, normal enemies to a far more miniscule effect.

Reckless: So I heard you like to plan everything beforehand...
You have 10 seconds to act before the game simply skips your turn. Think quickly.

Abstractless: What are all those 'numbers', you keep talking about?
Every numeric value outside of lore is now '?'. (Exception: Gold, Main stats) The 'compare' function still shows whether the stats of a weapon are better or worse.

Allergic: You just can't handle the nature like most people do.
Cannot use items powered by nature, or use any infusions.

Migraine: All that psychic stuff really makes your head hurt.
Same as above, but aligned to psionic forces.

(Alchemist only)Empathy: This is your golem, there are many like it, but this one is yours.
You die when your golem does.

(Cursed only)Hated: You're bird-free and many would like to see you dead.
Hostile to all factions. Apparently only the people of Last Hope, Angolwen and Zigur can tolerate your presence. Fortunately, your infamy didn't make it to Sunwall either.

(Necromancer only)Useless fodder: IMBECILES. SHOOT AT HIM. NOT ME.
All minions raised are skeleton mages. Damage taken from own minions is doubled.

(Wyrmic only)Color-coded: Red is the new black.
You can only choose one flavor of dragon aspect talents, however they gain extra power.

(Summoner only)Body-block: "You're in my way, sir."
Cannot pass through your summons.

(Archmage only)Staff dysfunction: You just can't get your rod up.
Cannot wield staves.

(Rogue only)Drop all pretense: Dis-guised.
Stealth is 0, at all times. So is invisibility, smartass.

[Marson]

The idea sounds pretty good, and I like the format you've opted for, Crim.

But Marson, how is Crank supposed to be... survivable?

I'm just mean like that.
It could be a pretty low %, and you could stock up on regen infusions. I suspect Magoo Mode would be more deadly.

[Salo]

Hurry up, no grind. The only dungeons you can enter are the ones essential for the plot. Any and all optional dungeons are forbidden (i.e. no norgos, heart of the gloom, ruined dungeon, elven ruins, lake of nur, etc, etc). Since you can't get to lake of nur, no farportal either.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

Salo, Nur is attached to old forest, I'd argue for it's inclusion in that. However, farportal is indeed optional. Also, norgos is storyline, if you start thalore. But yes, that is one I suggested too. Not sure how doable it is, but it would be interesting.

AlexMdle, largely good ideas. I'm not sure I like the idea of class specific ones, though that's not a horrible idea for some of those. Speedrun mode would need... balancing, carefully.
Abstractless would drive some players nuts, but I like theidea of hiding exact stats of a weapon.
Reckless sounds entertaining, that would be amazing.
Allergic - Awesome.
Migraine - Ditto.

Marson, Near sighted - YES. This is EXACTLY the kind of thing that adds a significant challenge, but doesn't rener the game unplayable.
Mr Magoo - That's... nuts. Insanely so. Not sure that WOULD be playable.

Supermini, I'm not sure bloat is a concern here. The whole point is to make modular difficulty, allowing folks to customize to their hearts content. Even if each one got an achievement, that's still a minimal amount of inflation per challenge. Though failing anything else, I'm sure separating the two could be done via addon.

[parcel]

Litterbug -- whatever you de-equip is transmogrified.
Do or die -- On every action you take, you are damaged for each foe in sight that you don't damage.
Gangly Gangs -- Mobs can melee you within range 2 provided that they have line of sight.
Party Time -- Adventurers roam each level.
Sidekicks -- Fixed bosses are generated with an adjacent randboss.
The Basics, Please -- Your have half the initial mastery in locked trees that you would normally.
Pariah -- start with negative skill points on each talent in your racial tree. Cornacs start with -1 cat points.
I Say Drop 'Em! -- often, uniques come with the WB's sustain-dropping taint.

[Burb Lulls]

Envy - Vaults appear more frequently; bosses no longer drop items.
Gluttony - Items kept in inventory have a chance of being 'consumed' (disappearing) each turn; equipped/plot items are safe.
Greed - Inscriptions cost gold with each use.
Lust - Any target hit by a ranged attack is automatically drawn one square towards their attacker. This effects both the player and NPCs.
Pride - Enemies beneath your level gain strength as if the level disparity was reversed; a level 5 foe facing a level 10 player would have the strength of a level 15 foe, etc..
Sloth - Player movement speed is tied to their current HP percentage.
Wrath - Everyone always deals critical hits.

- - -

Outcast - No shops.
Tactician - Enemies are always visible, player recieves more damage from attacks.
Realist - No inscriptions, stamina-only abilities, masterwork-only items.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

Litterbug -- whatever you de-equip is transmogrified.
Do or die -- On every action you take, you are damaged for each foe in sight that you don't damage.
Gangly Gangs -- Mobs can melee you within range 2 provided that they have line of sight.
Party Time -- Adventurers roam each level.
Sidekicks -- Fixed bosses are generated with an adjacent randboss.
The Basics, Please -- Your have half the initial mastery in locked trees that you would normally.
Pariah -- start with negative skill points on each talent in your racial tree. Cornacs start with -1 cat points.
I Say Drop 'Em! -- often, uniques come with the WB's sustain-dropping taint.

Litterbug - This could be interesting. Would hurt some classes (Like TimeWarden) though, that rely on alt-sets. If alt-set swapping is still permitted, that might work.
Do or Die - Damaged by how much? Even miniscule percenatge values could be deadly when combined with say, necromancers, or oozes, or even just a regular pit.
Gangly Games - So everything but you has range-2 on their melee attack? This could work, though if AI was adapted to take advantage, things like bees, flies, snakes, etc with speed advantages would kite you all across the floor.
Party Time - LOVE THIS. Random NPC adventurers spawned on every floor of every zone. Twould be AWESOME.
SideKicks - Assuming zone scaling is still handled properly, this could be great.
The basics - Great way to explore the balancing effects of mastery. This needs to be done, though I question how winnable it is.
Pariah, Drop Em - No real opinion here. Too hard to envision how it'd play out.

Envy - Vaults appear more frequently; bosses no longer drop items.
Gluttony - Items kept in inventory have a chance of being 'consumed' (disappearing) each turn; equipped/plot items are safe.
Greed - Inscriptions cost gold with each use.
Lust - Any target hit by a ranged attack is automatically drawn one square towards their attacker. This effects both the player and NPCs.
Pride - Enemies beneath your level gain strength as if the level disparity was reversed; a level 5 foe facing a level 10 player would have the strength of a level 15 foe, etc..
Sloth - Player movement speed is tied to their current HP percentage.
Wrath - Everyone always deals critical hits.

- - -

Outcast - No shops.
Tactician - Enemies are always visible, player recieves more damage from attacks.
Realist - No inscriptions, stamina-only abilities, masterwork-only items.

Envy - Could be... interesting. You'd have to really work for those good loot items with this.
Gluttony - This would be heartlessly cruel, but just might barely be doable.
Greed - Could be VERY entertaining. Would be interesting, to say the least.
Lust - Can't really tell if this would help or hurt.
Pride - This could so easily become nasty, but I question how much zone caps would impact it. It doesn't seem like you'd have very many places with a wide disparity. Has some potential though, especially as a starter challenge.
Sloth - Like Solipsism? Could be fun. Granted, you likely won't be getting an advantage, but even just degrading with health would make for interesting gameplay styles.
Wrath - Very fun, would make for... interesting burst-fights.

Outcast - Seems entirely doable. Wholeheartedly support.
Tactician - No real opinion. Hard to tell if this is a challenge or not.
Realist - I question the winnability of this, and it's hugely class-dependent. Zerker might manage it, or other warrior-stamina classes, but any off-stamina class would be effectively unplayable.

[parcel]

For Do or Die, much like Pariah, I think that a good scaling system needs to be found empirically. One idea on Do or Die is that the bulk of the damage scales inversely with the number of targets in sight. That is, using a regen infusion when you see 15 clear brittle oozes yields the same penalty as using a regen infusion when you see the weirdling beast. If there is a portion of the damage that does not scale down in this way, one way to control it is to not have it apply to summons. A check against summoning destabilization status would be a relatively easy way of defining a category of monsters to which the penalty does not apply.

I agree with you about Party Time. This sort of thing is easy to implement but it guarantees that you can get surprised on every level. You also would get to sift through more high-egoed loot as a way of compensating, which is another part of what makes adventurers interesting, despite their deadliness.

[edge2054]

No Escape - Stairs are one way, prevents stair dancing
Smaller Levels - But same amount of loot and monsters
Overpopulated - Doubles or Quadruples the number of monsters per level
Iron Man - Enables all of the above

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

All three of those sound good, though Ideally under the system in question, one can tick off multiple challenges anyway, so that would render Ironman moot.

(Separating them into 'sets' in the case of conflicting ones (Like no artifacts, and no truearts), and allowing one form each set, would solve potential conflicts, while still allowing a maximum of modularity.)

[The Revanchist]

No Escape - Stairs are one way, prevents stair dancing

By this, you mean that entering a level "locks you in"? If so, that'd be pretty cool.