Class idea: Rimelord[Coders wanted!]

[NemesisZeru]

An idea I had that was fleshed out a bit with the help of the IRC. The game seems to have it out for poor potential cryomancers, with only a few less-then-excellent trees for them to rain down frosty doom with. So why not a whole class of wintery goodness? :3


Gelids(Cryomancer is just a really lame title, IMO) are masters of using cold in various ways. They would use robes/2hs, and the core stats would likely be something like str/mag/will.

Their resource is something I really like the concept of, but would be tricky to work: Temperature. Gelid spells gradually cause the area to become colder, giving various benefits(Extra defenses, some small dot to nearby enemies, and access to stronger spells), and would sorta help enforce the tanky mage theme cold spells seem to have, requiring you to hold your ground to take advantage of the chill(the cold zone would be relatively big, but no so much you can cover the whole map or anything). It'd also give sort of a...ramp up to their spells that I like.

Still working on exact spells, but I have some ideas for trees.

Rimeshield
A cold tree that would give various defensive benefits, such as ice armor and cold damage to stuff that strikes you in melee. Might work the dot damage from Temperature in here.

Hoarfrost
One of the two offensive skill trees for Gelids. This one focuses more on lowering the temperature and debilitating with Frostbite(Slow and some DoT cold damage) and iceblocks then damage.

Example Spell

Frigid Wind
Cooldown 5
Generates 15 cold

Blow a frigid wind, doing X damage and lowering the target's cold resistance for X turns(Thinking similar hitbox to Corruptor's blood spray)


Polar
The second offensive skill tree, and the spenders to Hoarfrost's cold generators. Not many spell ideas yet, though.


Glacier
An interesting tree idea that I idily mentioned on the IRC and proved super possible. Everyone loves icewalls, right? Well why not create a few...and send them flying into your enemy's skull? Glacier'd focus on creating icewalls and using them for various tactical purposes...or using your nice, big hammer to send them sliding into an enemy for murderous fun! Might have enough going for it to make two trees.


Frozen Mastery
Simple enough. A generic tree to make things like Temperature more effective, as well as cold damage in general.


And...that's all I have so far. I can't code for the life of me, but maybe someone's inspired by this random idea, eh? :3

[The Revanchist]

Sounds like an interesting choice. A tanky, environment using/altering close-range mage. I don't think that the sort of thing has been used elsewhere in vanilla tome...

[NemesisZeru]

Sounds like an interesting choice. A tanky, environment using/altering close-range mage. I don't think that the sort of thing has been used elsewhere in vanilla tome...

Yep. While Ice seems to be designed to be tanky, the only classes who get it are glass cannons, who rather take more damage over it. Hoping this would make it more of an interesting choice~

[malboro_urchin]

Someone please help code this! I can't code, but I can contribute with skill ideas!
Edit: I'm not sure if this class leans towards the magical or the natural with its powers.

[NemesisZeru]

Someone please help code this! I can't code, but I can contribute with skill ideas!
Edit: I'm not sure if this class leans towards the magical or the natural with its powers.

I'm...not sure, really. It could go either way, honestly. Sooorta leaning towards magical, but you could make a strong case for natural, too. Heck, could have the spells be magical and the iceblock stuff natural, even...although that might be complicated.

I can't code worth a damn either, but skill ideas are always appreciated. The iceblock stuff feels relatively straightforward, just stuck on the big damage skills~

[Forger101]

Because I don't like seeing good ideas die to the lack of a programmer, I will offer my services.

Now my thoughts:
I love love the idea of another 2handed weapon class. Especially a cold based one, cold needs more love.
I feel this should be a mana based class mainly because equilibrium is annoying to deal with imo.
+1000 for the iceblock/icewall manipulation aspects

As you can probably tell I'm excited by this idea. So continue the discussion knowing this could likely be turned into an addon.

[malboro_urchin]

Some very very broad strokes for ideas; these would be more fleshed out, and for specific trees, if it weren't for upcoming final exams T_T:

A DoT that has a chance to pin, with the flavor here being that you're freezing your enemies innards/blood/etc., but not their outside (so you don't have to worry about iceblock penetration)
If people don't like the pin, it can be changed to a slow effect or something

A ball that intensifies and spreads your cold DoTs among a large group. There may be an existing ability like this in the Reaver & Corrupter's disease category.

I had a really weird idea for the Glacier tree: an ability that uses enemies as focal points for creating frost walls, freezing the enemies in the process. This could be used to give yourself LoS advantages, or to hem in a stronger foe by taking advantage of his or her weak underlings.

I don't want to contradict your initial vision, NemesisZeru, but when I think of this class, I think of it as a tankier paradox mage, controlling the battlefield with ice instead of spacetime distortions, meaning that the class would have a similar number of offensive abilities to the paradox mage, and most of its abilities would be focused around control and debilitation, providing the prime opportunity to unleash the few damaging spells the Gelid has.

[Sirrocco]

Best to keep it to a single base resource (we want to keep the mana/equilibrium hybrids few in number), and mana fits better than equilibrium, but there's this thing with weapon types. Specifically, if you let people use staves/mindstars, and you give them viable attacks based on magic/psi, then there are immediate reasons to jump to those instead.

- Cuts down on number of stats needed (can ignore str and maybe dex, and the stat they were pumping theyd have had to pump anyway)
- Nifty bonuses (increased power and crit for spells. Staves give you a damage bonus as well. Mindstars get cheap and easy bone shield shredding)

In order to keep the 2hand build viable, you'll need to (at least) throw in some fairly important strength scaling somewhere (so that the staff-wielders can't just ignore it, or qualify for their skills with gear and then ignore it, without paying a notable price), and probably some solid weapon-based attacks as well. Limiting somewhat the number of skills that scale on magic power would also help.

Suggestion: Have temperature be somewhat like paradox, except that instead of generating Odd Effects, the cold that you produce starts to overwhelm your own prodgious ability to resist it. At first, casting spells increases your frigidity, causing nifty things to happen (auras of cold, extra cold damage on melee hit, extra armor - whatever). Once it gets above a certain level, though, casting a spell can damage you (make it a check rather like equilibrium, but self-damage rather than spell failure, with more and more damage as it gets further and further beyond your ability to withstand) and eventually possibly freezing you. If it gets *too* far beyond your ability to withstand, maybe it actually starts dealing damage over time (possibly decaying as it does, just to be nice about things). Sustains would work like equilibrium sustains - allowing for builds that, for example, piled on a bunch of sustains, giving themselves the sustain bonuses and many of the passive frigidity benefits, but then stayed away from the active frigidity powers so as to avoid triggering self-damage.

Then give them an early passive that cranks up their ability to resist frigidity (and probably grants some extra cold resist) that scales nicely on strength. Voila. Gelid can no longer afford to simply ignore strength.

Actually, given this structure, you could make them a frigidity/stamina class if you wanted. That would work pretty well for giving people reasons to stick with 2handers.

[NemesisZeru]

Disclaimer, tired and reading big posts, so if my opinions seem inconsistent, trust the latter one, since I'm replying as I read to things~

Some very very broad strokes for ideas; these would be more fleshed out, and for specific trees, if it weren't for upcoming final exams T_T:

A DoT that has a chance to pin, with the flavor here being that you're freezing your enemies innards/blood/etc., but not their outside (so you don't have to worry about iceblock penetration)
If people don't like the pin, it can be changed to a slow effect or something
Seems like it could work, yeah. Relatively simple, but definitely fits the thematic~

A ball that intensifies and spreads your cold DoTs among a large group. There may be an existing ability like this in the Reaver & Corrupter's disease category.
That was...Catalepsy, right?

I had a really weird idea for the Glacier tree: an ability that uses enemies as focal points for creating frost walls, freezing the enemies in the process. This could be used to give yourself LoS advantages, or to hem in a stronger foe by taking advantage of his or her weak underlings.
So...like the Freeze spell Archmages have? Or would it say...freeze them IN the ice wall, and once the freeze runs out they're simply ejected?

I don't want to contradict your initial vision, NemesisZeru, but when I think of this class, I think of it as a tankier paradox mage, controlling the battlefield with ice instead of spacetime distortions, meaning that the class would have a similar number of offensive abilities to the paradox mage, and most of its abilities would be focused around control and debilitation, providing the prime opportunity to unleash the few damaging spells the Gelid has.

You're not contradicting my vision at all.. I see them as a tanky magic class(Maybe a bit like Arcane Blades, due to possible weapon use, but I'm not sure where that'll fit in outside of like, 2 skills) that uses DoTs and the environment to it's advantage, with possibly building up to a big finish via the temperature mechanic(IE, the few damaging spells you mentioned)

Best to keep it to a single base resource (we want to keep the mana/equilibrium hybrids few in number), and mana fits better than equilibrium, but there's this thing with weapon types. Specifically, if you let people use staves/mindstars, and you give them viable attacks based on magic/psi, then there are immediate reasons to jump to those instead.
I'm not entirely sure on mindstars, admittedly. Not entirely sure how well they'd fit. It's an option, though.

- Cuts down on number of stats needed (can ignore str and maybe dex, and the stat they were pumping theyd have had to pump anyway)
- Nifty bonuses (increased power and crit for spells. Staves give you a damage bonus as well. Mindstars get cheap and easy bone shield shredding)

In order to keep the 2hand build viable, you'll need to (at least) throw in some fairly important strength scaling somewhere (so that the staff-wielders can't just ignore it, or qualify for their skills with gear and then ignore it, without paying a notable price), and probably some solid weapon-based attacks as well. Limiting somewhat the number of skills that scale on magic power would also help.
I had some ideas for that. Extra damage/critrate/whatever on frozen enemies. If the enemy is crit and dies, they explode in a ball of cold damage or something. I am keeping it in mind, just trying to solidify the base mechanics before I work on specific skills(outside of general skilltree concepts).

Suggestion: Have temperature be somewhat like paradox, except that instead of generating Odd Effects, the cold that you produce starts to overwhelm your own prodgious ability to resist it. At first, casting spells increases your frigidity, causing nifty things to happen (auras of cold, extra cold damage on melee hit, extra armor - whatever). Once it gets above a certain level, though, casting a spell can damage you (make it a check rather like equilibrium, but self-damage rather than spell failure, with more and more damage as it gets further and further beyond your ability to withstand) and eventually possibly freezing you. If it gets *too* far beyond your ability to withstand, maybe it actually starts dealing damage over time (possibly decaying as it does, just to be nice about things). Sustains would work like equilibrium sustains - allowing for builds that, for example, piled on a bunch of sustains, giving themselves the sustain bonuses and many of the passive frigidity benefits, but then stayed away from the active frigidity powers so as to avoid triggering self-damage.

Oooh...I like this. Definite risk-reward system, and definitely fits the thematic.

Then give them an early passive that cranks up their ability to resist frigidity (and probably grants some extra cold resist) that scales nicely on strength. Voila. Gelid can no longer afford to simply ignore strength.

Actually, given this structure, you could make them a frigidity/stamina class if you wanted. That would work pretty well for giving people reasons to stick with 2handers.

Frigidity, eh? Could work. Frigidity/Stamina would make them sorta cold/cc-focused Arcane Blades, which isn't a bad angle. Multiple playstyles never hurt, just gotta make sure they're relatively even, lest everyone flock to one because it's clearly superior. I don't mind if one turns out better, so long as it isn't so much better it overshadows the other, y'know?

[NemesisZeru]

What would you guys thinkn about Gelid becoming a metaclass? There's so many good ideas here, that I think there could be two classes from this, really. Metaclass name'd probably be something like Cryomancer.

Gelid: Tanky ice mages who focus on debilitation(freezes, slows, maybe some stuns)(would use the tanky PM idea).
Rimelord: swift, deadly warriors who crush foes with twin axes, with some frost effects on the side(Would definitely use that shatter ability I thought up last post, as well as buffs to weapons and armor via ice magic)(Would be more akin to an ice-themed Arcane Blade/Marauder hybrid)

Possible third idea from some IRC talk!
Frostguard: Based on the lore of shieldsmaidens on an artifact shield, but refluffed to avoid gender limitations. They'd use a 1h weapon and shield, and well...be tanky. Akin to a Valkyrie, a Frostugard can summon one of the legendary shieldsmaidens to help him or her in their time of need.

Think it'd be enough for more then one class?

[Razakai]

Rather than a purely cold based metaclass, why not involve fire too? Could still use the temperature resource but have it work in a different manner, and have a fire themed dual wielding melee.

[NemesisZeru]

Rather than a purely cold based metaclass, why not involve fire too? Could still use the temperature resource but have it work in a different manner, and have a fire themed dual wielding melee.

Possibly...Iunno. Fire seems like it has plenty of uses on say...Archmages(Wildfire OP), while cold gets little love.

[malboro_urchin]

Rather than a purely cold based metaclass, why not involve fire too? Could still use the temperature resource but have it work in a different manner, and have a fire themed dual wielding melee.

Possibly...Iunno. Fire seems like it has plenty of uses on say...Archmages(Wildfire OP), while cold gets little love.

I agree. Wildfire is indeed very powerful compared to other classes. Cold could really use a strong alternative, like this metaclass.

[NemesisZeru]

Still working on this! I ALMOST have a basic melee tree figured out.

That said, if we're combining the two ideas to make a tanky, short ranged caster/melee with a focus on cold damage and the like, is Gelid still an appropriate name?

Here's a possible melee tree for them.

Freezing Strikes
Passive

Every hit does X cold damage, and adds a stack of Freezing Strikes. At 5 stacks, the monster is frozen for X turns. In addition, your mastery of iceblocks allows your damage to pierce them far more effectively.


Shatter
Active
Generates X Frigidity
Cooldown: Probably something low. 4 turns, maybe?

A powerful hit that does X% cold damage and knocks the enemy back. If it kills, an ice wall is created where the enemy died. If used on an ice wall, it shatters, doing X cold damage in Radius X around the ice wall.


Howling Stance
Sustain
Generates X Frigidity(per hit

Channel the power of freezing winds around your weapon. Each hit lowers the enemy's cold resistance by X% for 5 turns. In addition, you gain X% critical chance on frozen targets.
(Probably will only stack X times on a specific target, but not sure on an exact number)

Shroud of Winter
Active
Generates X Frigidity per turn

Surround yourself in a blizzard, doing X cold damage to targets nearby each turn for X(Maybe 10?) turns. Every enemy you kill while Shroud of Winter is active adds X% cold damage for the duration of the Shroud.
(Possibly a better fit in the more...tanky tree, but I really liked the idea of them being surrounded by Blizzards. I think Ryoshi on the irc brought up that awesome idea, and I thank him for it. :3 )

[Forger101]

Shatter is already used as a talent name so you would need something else.
In my opinion I like Rimelord for the class name better than Gelid

Here is an idea for a new tree.

Frost Forge:

Frost Hammer:Sustained
When not wielding a weapon, this creates a frozen hammer for you to wield
DamageType would be cold, Base stats for the hammer would increase with talent level and some stat.

Frost Strike:Active
Smash the ground with your frost hammer dealing aoe cold damage and randomly creating icewalls within the radius, damage would increase with some stat

Rime: Active
Increase your armour and armour hardiness and deal cold damage when hit, lasts for x turns.
The stats for this would have to be good so that it isn't just an activated version of the wyrmic sustain.

Frost Hewn: Active
Turn x amount of ice walls into Shivgoraths, that last for x turns.