Prodigies that still need buffing

[Parcae2]

Here are some thoughts on prodigies that I rarely see people take, or feel the inclination to take myself:

Roll With It: Add some resist all and/or +max resist.
Windtouched Speed: Add some substantial amount of movement speed.
Armour of Shadows: Use X% of armor as damage reduction when on an unlit tile.
Corrupted Shell: Add blight damage affinity
Aether Permeation: Use either arcane resistance or regular resistance, whichever is higher
Revisionist History: Some kind of 1-shot avoidance ability
Garkul's Revenge: Summon a golem?
Lucky Day: Add crit modifier
Elemental Surge: Improve special effects
Fast as Lightning: Improve base movement speed
Secrets of Telos: Unlock Cunning/Survival tree if locked, or significantly improve multiplier if unlocked
Tricky Defenses: Absorb X% of damage rather that a flat amount
Worldy Knowledge: Two trees instead of one, or remove limits on which trees can be learned.

Obviously people might disagree which prodigies are in fact in need of a buff. Thoughts?

[grayswandir]

How about:
Armour of Shadows: When on an unlit tile, you swap your resist all and your resist darkness if your resist darkness is higher. Maybe on a cooldown or something.

[kyuubee]

some of these prodigies are strong and some are both popular and strong

[Parcae2]

Which ones?

[stinkstink]

Garkul's Revenge, Windtouched Speed, and Corrupted Shell don't need to be buffed. I'd like Elemental Surge if it lost the cooldown and toned down some of the effects to make it appealing to multiple element classes like Wyrmic.

[bpat]

Adding to this list:
I Can Carry The World: Inferior to Flexible Combat and Legacy of the Naloren. Should give massive physical save or stun/pin resistance.
Massive Blow: Worse than You Shall Be My Weapon and way worse than Windblade. Should do 350% damage initially and 150% for hitting a wall, maybe it should severely reduce armor for a few turns or ignore armor for the attack.
Superpower: Just plain underpowered and very lackluster. Should give at least 40% Willpower modifier to weapons.
You Shall Be My Weapon: Weak with a ridiculous prerequisite, worse than Windblade. Should not require being big and/or the initial target should be stunned as well.
Giant Leap: Cooldown should be at most 10, probably less.
Draconic Body: Cooldown should be 20 or less and it should prevent being oneshot.
Arcane Might: Just plain underpowered and very lackluster. Should give at least 60% Magic modifier to weapons.
Unbreakable Will: No idea how to fix this without changing what it does since even with zero cooldown it'd still worse than Draconic Will.
Endless Woes: Seriously underpowered. Increase the blight and acid damage to 80% of the hit (reasonable since it's damage over time). Increase the power of temporal slow and mind confuse to 50%. Add fire to burn for 130% of the hit over 5 turns. Add cold to pin (like Frozen Ground) for 5 turns. Add lightning to daze for 3 turns. Add nature to apply a random poison for 80% of the hit. Add light to do the existing darkness effect. Change darkness to apply a random Fear effect.
Tricks of the Trade: No way this is worth sacrificing merchant randarts as it is. Make it reduce Stealth's cooldown by half and boost invisibility power by 25%.

[bpat]

some of these prodigies are strong and some are both popular and strong

Some of them are popular but none of them are very strong, including the popular Corrupted Shell (just get items if you care about health), Windtouched Speed (Wilders can't really use this well and 20% global speed is pretty low, if you like global speed that much just play a Yeek), and Tricky Defenses (antimagic is bad and this doesn't make it less bad, anyway there's no way anyone should take it over Spell Feedback or Fungal Blood for antimagic characters).

[Davion Fuxa]

Here's my overview on all the Prodigies on whether or not I think they are useful. I'll come back with some thoughts on the actual topic later - this should just be used to decide whether a Prodigy really isn't that useful or not:

Legend:
Green Prodigies I feel are fine
Blue Prodigies could be good but I dunno
Red Prodigies I feel are either lacklustre, too costly, detrimental, or beaten out by other prodigies

Strength:

Flexible Combat: An Extra Attack which I assume would be good on counters based on Extra Attacks - Arcane Blades as an example.
I Can Carry The World: Never got this myself and never plan too. It's effects seem too frivolous to be useful.
Irresistible Sun: If I ever get a Sun Paladin or some other character that likes to be in Melee Range but has trouble doing so high enough a level, I'd take this.
Legacy of Naloran: I personally have never used it as it comes off as 'gimmicky' to me; though that doesn't mean it is weak - I can tell it is quite strong.
Massive Blow: This skill might catch you by surprise from that Backup Guardian, but few would need this Melee Burst Damage.
Steamroller: Just from the reset Rush I can tell this is quite powerful, the extra damage is gravy.
Superpower: Elemental based Wyrmics or Anti-Magic would probably like this one from the looks of it
You Shall Be My Weapon: More powerful then Massive Blow due to it Stunning Stuff, but still quite weak.

Dexterity:

Crafty Hands: I'm not into crafting, but that doesn't mean I don't discount this Prodigy as quite powerful.
Giant Leap: I consider this a top-tier Prodigy due to how useful it was when I beat the game as a Rogue.
Roll With It: Physical Damage, and even just basic Melee and Ranged hits aren't really threatening come time Prodigies come around.
Swift Hands: The quick weapon swap is a nice gimmick; the real meat comes from the removed 'Equip Cooldown'. Real question is in regards to items.
Through The Crowd: This could be powerful I guess on Necromancer if all your Undead Minions Boost your Saves - not to mention the Mobility. But I donnu.
Vital Shot: To be honest this sounds weak, but I have such little experience with Ranged Combat that I'll ignore going further on this one.
Windblade: A Super AoE for Melee Dual-Wielders (or perhaps that's any weapon once pre-reqs out?) that Disarms. Melee lacks AoE clearing so this isn't bad.
Windtouched Speed: Essentially you get a 5th turn for free on your enemies with this regardless of what you do - very powerful in a long fight.

Constitution:

Armor of Shadows: Armor and Armor Hardiness don't sound too useful for much the same reason Roll With It isn't good. Not sure of Light works either.
Bloodspring: Odd effect, but it sounds like a fairly interesting Prodigy due to all the utility it offers through Knockback and half-damage inflicted heal.
Corrupted Shell: You get a small boost to health and defense, but what looks to be a fairly sizable boost to Saves. All around good for shoring things up I guess.
Draconic Body: Aeryn has this one right, so why shouldn't you! A very powerful automatic healing mechanism that can save your bacon if not careful.
Eternal Guard: If you like to Block and have Blocking Skills then this obviously becomes oh so powerful.
Fungal Blood: I never understood the point of this one due to the lack of detail for it. Is it a no-time activation skill? Better heal then Draconic Body.
Never Stop Running: Essentially you can reposition your character without enemies taking actions at a cost to Stamina. It seems really costly in Stamina though.
Spine Of The World: I suppose the question here is if Physical Effects are scary enough come Prodigy time that you would get this.

Magic:

Aether Permeation: Reduction of Damage from All Sources is obviously quite powerful if you can get that Arcane Resistance up enough.
Arcane Might: Extra Damage based on your Magic Stat for your Weapons. Most Magic/Melee Hybrids do rather lacklustre damage with Weapons.
Blighted Summoning: Your Necromancer Minions or Alchemist Golem get Stronger - except those become Cannon Fodder later right?
Cauterize: To be honest I found this to be quite weak when I used it on my Anorithil. I like that it saves you but the damage is too severe.
Mystical Cunning: The +20 Spell Save is nice - though Corrupted Shell is better. Maybe the Vulnerability Poison and Gravictic Trap are super nice?
Revisionist History: You gain the ability to Save your Game, sort of. Obviously if you die then that's it. Sounds powerful.
Block All Damage Types: Again, if you like Block then this becomes oh so powerful - because now it doesn't matter if the damage isn't physical.
Temporal Form: This seems like a really weak Prodigy, but if you are having trouble because your doing the wrong damage type then it could be good.

Willpower:

Draconic Will: Requires Foresight, but if you know that Status Ailments will be coming your way then this is going to be nice to have.
Garkul's Revenge: Atamathon begone! On a more serious note though, that 20% damage boost to humanoids is utterly quite powerful.
Hidden Resources: To be honest I've never found Resources to be a problem - but that doesn't mean I don't understand seeing this as a powerful prodigy.
Lucky Day: Luck helps you with everything you do, but you'd probably get it for the Halfling Racial to let you Evade more.
Mental Tyranny: You essentially hit enemies with a damage type few resist - and which penetrates the resistance of those that do. Or you further increase it.
Meteoric Crash: METEO! As stated, Stun is meh - but I assume you can fire this anywhere in your Line of Sight instantly while getting some decent damage.
Spell Feedback: You get hit with a spell, the spellcaster who cast it gets hit with feedback and spell failure. Spellcasters are big threats so this is good.
Unbreakable Will: Confusion and Silence aren't THAT big of a deal, and a Wild Infusion or Frozen Spear is usually more then enough.

Cunning:

Elemental Surge: I'm completely lost on what this is suppose to do since I have no idea what the positive effects are suppose to be.
Endless Woes: Pretty well Elemental Surge but with you applying negative effects to the enemy - that I still have not idea about.
Eye of the Tiger: Very, very Powerful. Can use short-cooldown talents again very quickly, or see long-cooldown talents usable again in a long fight.
Fast as Lightning: So pop a Movement Infusion and go the same direction for 3 turns and then you can run through things? Could be useful.
Secrets of Telos: I'm at a complete loss on if this might be useful or not since I really never use Staves or care too much about them.
Tricks of the Trade: Improve, Learn, and Unlock Stealth and Scoundrel categories while halving your Invisibility Damage Penalty. I'll keep my Randarts.
Tricky Defenses: You Absorb extra damage with your Antimagic Shield while it is active. Personally I think the Shield is more for Equilibrium.
Worldly Knowledge: Talent or Generic Points are not that plentiful to really make use of this. Escort categories are nice but not worth a Prodigy.

Edit1: Mental Tyranny changed to Blue Font.

[Orangeflame]

Cauterize: To be honest I found this to be quite weak when I used it on my Anorithil. I like that it saves you but the damage is too severe.

You're kidding, right? It is the best anti-YASD there is.
Kept bump attacking those trash mobs when a nasty comes along? Thought you could go 'one more turn' before teleporting? Accidentally kept manually exploring while in sight of a powerful boss? The list goes on and on.
After it triggers, you have a chance to put up all your shields, heroism, etc. that you're too lazy to use on a regular business and kill whatever triggered it. Alternatively, you can put up shields and flee, and come back later when it's ready to save your hide again.
Damage being severe? The absolute worst I've had from it is ~300 damage/turn, which is worrisome, but stoppable through a combination of teleporting away and using shields/heals/regens.

[Parcae2]

Cauterize is a playstyle thing. Ideally, if your play is optimal at all times, you should never need it - but does that actually describe anyone? Anyway, if it's debatable, it probably doesn't belong on this list.

I'll bow to Bpat's suggestions for damage prodigies. I never take them myself.

Tricks of the Trade is, I think, quite useful on normal, where Shadowblades and Rogues would do anything to crank up their Unseen Actions chances by that last few percent. On higher difficulties, stealth is pretty useless anyway.

Secrets of Telos is the one I feel most strongly about buffing, since it's a really neat concept but not worth the tradeoffs as it stands. It would have to be really good to be worth waiting to collect all the items, plus giving up your weapon and shield slots and using a prodigy. Maybe enabling instant weapon swapping (like Celerity)?

[ZyZ]

Arcane Might: Extra Damage based on your Magic Stat for your Weapons. Most Magic/Melee Hybrids do rather lacklustre damage with Weapons.

Arcane might has no additional restrictions. Every class can benefit from it. Sure it is not that good when you are playing arcane blade but when most of your dmg comes from direct weapon hits (berserker, cursed, solipsist dream hammer etc) you can simply calculate bonus before you take this prodigy. Assuming your magic stat is close to other stats that you are using to calculate dmg it is a solid ~30% bonus.

Mental Tyranny: You essentially hit enemies with a damage type few resist - and which penetrates the resistance of those that do. Or you further increase it.

Very weak. 33% conversion doesnt solve anything. No class can focus on mind dmg so why would anyone want to boost non-optimal damage type. Temporal form seems to be way better.

Tricks of the Trade: Improve, Learn, and Unlock Stealth and Scoundrel categories while halving your Invisibility Damage Penalty. I'll keep my Randarts.

Imho scoundrel tree is selling point here. Only a few classes have access to it. When you focus on defence or defence related skills you can reach normally unattainable defence values. On top of it you get a lot of nice passives.

[bpat]

Cauterize is a playstyle thing. Ideally, if your play is optimal at all times, you should never need it - but does that actually describe anyone? Anyway, if it's debatable, it probably doesn't belong on this list.

I'll bow to Bpat's suggestions for damage prodigies. I never take them myself.

Tricks of the Trade is, I think, quite useful on normal, where Shadowblades and Rogues would do anything to crank up their Unseen Actions chances by that last few percent. On higher difficulties, stealth is pretty useless anyway.

Secrets of Telos is the one I feel most strongly about buffing, since it's a really neat concept but not worth the tradeoffs as it stands. It would have to be really good to be worth waiting to collect all the items, plus giving up your weapon and shield slots and using a prodigy. Maybe enabling instant weapon swapping (like Celerity)?

I strongly disagree that Cauterize isn't necessary if you play carefully, at least no more unnecessary than any other defensive ability. Often it gives you a chance to heal or get away from what would normally be a finishing blow. For instance, on my Insane Archmage run, I've been hit for 2,000 damage Freezes that break through my Time Shield and sometimes my damage shield too, which would often kill me if Cauterize didn't have the chance to use Arcane Reconstruction to heal up and shield myself. I'd argue that Cauterize is one of the top three prodigies in the game along with Draconic Will and Flexible Combat (All three of my Insane wins used two of these three prodigies).

Unseen Actions and Stealth were changed so the 0.2 boost is not very good anymore, so it would be fair to buff Tricks of the Trade to compensate.

I believe Secrets of Telos's Corrupted Losgoroth Form is being buffed next patch, but it could really use more buffs, especially in terms of percent damage and Spellpower (seriously, I've seen blues with better offense stats).

[bpat]

I agree with most of this post but I disagree with a few.

Steamroller: If you're killing stuff in 2 turns already you don't need an offense prodigy. Bonus points for being fun.
Superpower: 50ish Mindpower is bad for a prodigy. 30% Willpower modifier is also bad. Temporal Form is better for both physical and mental attacks.
Giant Leap: 20 cooldown is too long, if it's reduced to 10 then it'll be strong.
Windtouched Speed: You can't get it on the classes that need it, since Wilders are restricted by cooldowns more than speed and the only realistic way for anyone else to get this is to go Antimagic which is bad.
Draconic Body: 40 cooldown makes this potentially good prodigy a joke.
Spine Of The World: On par with Draconic Will, which is amazing. Not only does this shut down stuns, but it also prevents poisons, burns, pins, and more.
Aether Permeation: Just bad. Arcane resistance is rare and it isn't even good if you have 70%.
Arcane Might: Same problem as Superpower.
Cauterize: One of the top three prodigies, see above.
Mystical Cunning: Gravity Trap is amazing.
Revisionist History: Paradox Mage has regular talents that are better than this.
Temporal Form: This is amazing, better than Mental Tyranny on all classes except Doomed. Status effects and extra damage are both great.
Garkul's Revenge: 20% damage is pretty pathetic. Temporal Form is way better.
Mental Tyranny: It's a crappy Temporal Form on every class except Doomed

[Parcae2]

Bpat, 2k damage spikes are very rare outside of the highest difficulties (even Insane will almost never have them in 1.2). Even then, what I meant by "optimal play" was that, if you scout every level with Track so as to always have a cold ward up when an Orc Cryomancer is in range, you can theoretically make it even through current-version Insane without Cauterize. (I've had an Insane Roguelike character make it to level 47 with no means of instant-death avoidance. I neglected to check his stun resistance, though, and he got stoned to death).

I don't disagree with you substantively that Cauterize is, for most players, very good. I merely meant that if you are, say, Stition, you can probably manage without, and there are other prodigies that give bonuses all the time instead of in very specific circumstances; so, if you are setting out to make the Perfect Character to be played by the Perfect Player, you will probably not pick Cauterize. In the real world, it is indeed one of the very best prodigies and certainly does not need a buff.

[bpat]

Bpat, 2k damage spikes are very rare outside of the highest difficulties (even Insane will almost never have them in 1.2). Even then, what I meant by "optimal play" was that, if you scout every level with Track so as to always have a cold ward up when an Orc Cryomancer is in range, you can theoretically make it even through current-version Insane without Cauterize. (I've had an Insane Roguelike character make it to level 47 with no means of instant-death avoidance. I neglected to check his stun resistance, though, and he got stoned to death).

I don't disagree with you substantively that Cauterize is, for most players, very good. I merely meant that if you are, say, Stition, you can probably manage without, and there are other prodigies that give bonuses all the time instead of in very specific circumstances; so, if you are setting out to make the Perfect Character to be played by the Perfect Player, you will probably not pick Cauterize. In the real world, it is indeed one of the very best prodigies and certainly does not need a buff.

I see your point that if you use Track and good defense, Cauterize shouldn't trigger very often if at all. However, even on Nightmare and Normal, the one turn of survival it gives can be just enough to save you. The best players (better than me anyway) could manage without it, but it's still a top-tier prodigy for sure.