New Class Idea: Chromaticist

[The Revanchist]

Foreword: I will develop this myself, provided I manage to get a firm grasp on Lua. It hasn't happened yet, but it might.

The Chromaticist is a manipulator of color, and the damage types most associated with it. Their abilities will be fueled by Saturation (or another name, don't know yet for sure) and they will have three independent bars. These currently being "Cyan", "Magenta" and "Yellow" saturations. Abilities are fueled by an appropriate mixture of these bars.
For example: A Cold-damage spell will use mostly or fully Cyan, while a Darkness-damage attack will likely use all three.

The primary focus of the class is adaptable mid-damage attacks from a variety of ranges, and the ability to adapt damage to suit individual enemies efficiently.

I will flesh this out if interest is found. Otherwise it'll just be one of those spur of the moment ideas.

[Doctornull]

Sounds interesting for a pen & paper game, but a computer game should clearly be driven by Red, Green and Blue.

[The Revanchist]

Funny enough, I intended one of their higher level trees to change to this. Among other things, like Greyscale. And Additive color theory. And some other third thing I still have to determine.

[Sirrocco]

The fluff is a bit too kitsch/joke/meta for me. Seems to me that new classes should be built on some combination of the following.

- "Here's an interesting character archetype - an interesting concept of how the character interacts with the world" This is stuff like the Solipsist, who is convinced that they're dreaming the world into existence, and who can get the world to buy into that to a degree, or the Oozemancer, who is pure antimagic character based on oneness with fungus and ooze. To a lesser extent, it's someone who approaches things a little differently than most - like the Stonewarden, who dual-wields shields. Right now, you don't seem to have a whole lot of this.

- "Here's an interesting playstyle or playstyle-affecting mechanic that isn't really covered elsewhere". This can include things like interesting effects from resource bars, or being a walking PBAOE or whatever. Sometimes this is the core of the idea, aroudn which all else is built, and that can be cool. Sometimes it's wrapped on afterwards to acquire/maintain interest. Generally speaking, one ought to include at least some of this - if the class plays exactly the same as every other class, what's the point?

Your class has a bit of this - as you said, "adaptable mid-damage attacks from a variety of ranges" along with ease of controlling your damage type. Still, there's nothing *all* that interesting here.

- "Here's an interesting and compelling piece of fluff or interesting way that it fits into the campaign world". Here we're looking for stuff that tells a good story within the world of Maj'Eyal - some new power source, and an explanation of where it fits into things, or a new and more interesting way of approaching old power sources, and a new niche in the relationships between the various powers of the world.

Your class seems to be based on this. This isn't a problem in and of itself, but when you unwrap it, the thing it's based on is a joke - putting it in would render the entire game that much less serious, and to no great gain. Even if you went back later and plastered on a backstory, it would be, at best, bolted onto the lore in an ungainly fashion.

Perhaps I'm wrong. Maybe this wasn't intended as some sort of weird joke/meta power source. If you're suggesting that there should be some sort of fundamental power associated with colors, and that mixing different colors can result in different damage types that happen to be of that color - well, how does this make sense? What is the source of this power, and why does it act in this bizarre fashion, so unlike everything else? What is the point of adding this to the lore of Maj'Eyal?

[The Revanchist]

The fluff is a bit too kitsch/joke/meta for me. Seems to me that new classes should be built on some combination of the following.

- "Here's an interesting character archetype - an interesting concept of how the character interacts with the world" This is stuff like the Solipsist, who is convinced that they're dreaming the world into existence, and who can get the world to buy into that to a degree, or the Oozemancer, who is pure antimagic character based on oneness with fungus and ooze. To a lesser extent, it's someone who approaches things a little differently than most - like the Stonewarden, who dual-wields shields. Right now, you don't seem to have a whole lot of this.

- "Here's an interesting playstyle or playstyle-affecting mechanic that isn't really covered elsewhere". This can include things like interesting effects from resource bars, or being a walking PBAOE or whatever. Sometimes this is the core of the idea, aroudn which all else is built, and that can be cool. Sometimes it's wrapped on afterwards to acquire/maintain interest. Generally speaking, one ought to include at least some of this - if the class plays exactly the same as every other class, what's the point?

Your class has a bit of this - as you said, "adaptable mid-damage attacks from a variety of ranges" along with ease of controlling your damage type. Still, there's nothing *all* that interesting here.

- "Here's an interesting and compelling piece of fluff or interesting way that it fits into the campaign world". Here we're looking for stuff that tells a good story within the world of Maj'Eyal - some new power source, and an explanation of where it fits into things, or a new and more interesting way of approaching old power sources, and a new niche in the relationships between the various powers of the world.

Your class seems to be based on this. This isn't a problem in and of itself, but when you unwrap it, the thing it's based on is a joke - putting it in would render the entire game that much less serious, and to no great gain. Even if you went back later and plastered on a backstory, it would be, at best, bolted onto the lore in an ungainly fashion.

Perhaps I'm wrong. Maybe this wasn't intended as some sort of weird joke/meta power source. If you're suggesting that there should be some sort of fundamental power associated with colors, and that mixing different colors can result in different damage types that happen to be of that color - well, how does this make sense? What is the source of this power, and why does it act in this bizarre fashion, so unlike everything else? What is the point of adding this to the lore of Maj'Eyal?

...perhaps, and this is just another thought of mine... I should have put this in a different thread. I can't justify it in game, nor will I attempt to. That was a very persuasive arguement, Sirrocco.
I probably couldn't justify it anyway. Unless, as you said, I wanted to just doom seriousness. Which I don't.

[snoop]

What about some sort of Light Alchemist? Through experimentation, you've discovered that Light is not just a single source of power, but can actually be separated into colours and manipulated in more complex ways. It could even play off the different gem colours somehow.

[The Revanchist]

What about some sort of Light Alchemist? Through experimentation, you've discovered that Light is not just a single source of power, but can actually be separated into colours and manipulated in more complex ways. It could even play off the different gem colours somehow.

I had contemplated that. I had also tossed the possibility of a Celestial class. I even thought about a Psionic class. They all met the same problem: Why it works that way. To that, I have no answer.

[stinkstink]

I'm getting some fun ideas from this, I'll post em when they're a bit more fleshed out.

[stinkstink]

My rough outline for a color-based class. I like the subtractive ink concept more than additive light.

Resource recovery tree
Color Drain - Drain a target, stunning it and recovering ink based on its color (caveat: creature color would be determined by its assigned ASCII mode color, which may not resemble its tile graphic)
Sponge - Sustain, recover ink over time based on surroundings (sustain instead of passive so it can be turned off for finer color management at the expense of slower resource gain)
Iridescent Ink - Destroy a gem and gain ink based on color, long cooldown
Equalize - Equalize ink bars and gain x extra on each, CD down with talent level

White or color drained targets take extra damage or status from the next chroma talent that hits them and change color based on its type, altering the resources gained if they're drained again. You'd need shaders for the visual effects to work in tiled mode

Basic attack tree
Chroma Pellets - Fires x slow-moving bolts at random targets in a cone, damage type/effects based on highest ink value, no base cost but drains x highest ink per shot
Inkwall - Creates wall map effect that deals damage and knocks back
Bleach - Color drains target area and poisons
Tone Shift - Sustain, damage bonus based on ink amount. Bonuses/resists based on color? Changes Color Drain's status from stun? Damage conversion??

There'd also be discrete cyan/magenta/yellow trees, each of which has a capstone that purges most/all of its respective resource for an aoe attack, a locked color mixing tree with red/green/blue/black talents, and a locked living ink tree featuring summons that use their health to fire chromatic shots and color drain adjacent targets of the same color to restore themselves.

Color/damage/status chart
cyan - cold - slow (don't want multiple statuses that run off stun resist)
yellow - light - blind
magenta - arcane - silence
red (m+y) - fire - something more interesting than burn
green (c+y) - acid - disarm
blue (c+m)- lightning - daze/stun
black (c+y+m)- darkness - instakill (should be the most difficult to maintain)

[MalReynolds]

I am envisioning geometry here.

A cone, radiating out, colors spraying, red blue green. A circular pattern, red inside and violet towards the edge.

Also maybe something about bending light: so there's a defensive chance of a blow heading elsewhere, or projectiles get bent around the target.

There's also something about light pressure, as well. You could push enemies away, do crowd control.

Also there's the famous ultraviolet and infrared vision issues: this could be track, or extra-radius vision, etc.

Optical illusions are often based on color. You could have some resistance or saves built up due to an illusion.

There definitely has to be something about dark and bright rooms, sort of umbraphage style.

Also, you could deposit a prism in a cell--I'm imagining a nice icon here; anything nearby gets zapped, or you can cast spells on the prism which effects cells near there.

Afterimages are perceptions of light that remain; you could get something similar to chronomancer's haste.

I imagine that additive color and subtractive color could be useful for resistances, or stacking damage, or whatever.

I'm not sure what going black-and-white would mean; you could blast an area, and the radius would turn black and white, and your spells would then have additional power; whatever.

Lots of neat possibilities here.

[The Revanchist]

Well... When I asked for help, I didn't think it would be that much. This community is awesome.

In related news, that's a lot to consider, and more than enough to make me happy to consider this again.

So many great ideas... What to do...

[The Revanchist]

Revamped Chromaticist Class. Read on if you'd like.

Name: Chromaturg, Chromaturgist
Locked Desc: I'll make this later.
Description: Hailing from Angolwen, Chromaturgists are concerned not with Aether, or even the elements. Instead, they devote themselves to the study of Light Magics. Drawing color from external sources, they channel power theough it to both protect themselves and cripple their foes.
A Chromaturges most important stats are Magic and Willpower.

• Chroma/Chromaturgy
  • Chromaturgy
    Available at level 0
    Magic 12
    Passive+Active
    Learn to shape and amplify light itself to your whim. At Talent Level 1, unlock sustain "Color Leech". This feeds you color from your enemy. Investing in this talet also increases your Saturation regeneration.
    Effects scale with your mindpower, and spellpower.
  • Channel Color
    Available at Level 4
    Magic 20
    Sustain
    Allows you to channel a specific color, greatly increasing it's regeneration, but decreasing other Saturation regens. Higher talent levels increase the rate of regeneration, and slightly decrease the regen penalty.
  • Chromatic Sink
    Available at Level 8
    Magic 28
    Activated
    Draw in all chromatic energy around you, refilling your Saturation bars.
    The sudden loss of all color comfused enemies, damages all characters, and prevents Chromatic regeneration for several turns.
    Amount gained scales with Mind and Spellpower.
    Turns chromalocked decrease with talent level.
    If Ichor is known, the attack instead heals you.
  • Ichor
    Available at Level 12
    Magic 36
    Passive
    CANNOT BE UNLEARNED
    Replace your very life-blood with that of a Chromatic Ichor. Greaty increases your Saturation regeneration, converts a percentage of damage into damage to your Saturation, and remove any need to breath.
    Adopting this talent increases many of your Chromatic effects, and those applicable will be marked.

This is a probable sample of a tree, in this case, the "defining" tree, I'd hope. Many other trees, which I have you all to thank, are on the way soon.

[Sirrocco]

So... with the caveat of "this is too nonserious to live", and approaching it as a an exercise for amusement rather than anything else...

- I'm a bit confused on how you intend the resource pools to work here. So far, I've picked up that you have three of them, and they have a degree of natural regen. On top of that, you have a tree largely devoted to resource regen. The first talent is split into a passive and a sustain, both of which recharge saturation. The second focuses some of your saturation regen to a specific color. The third borrows a page from the celestial/psionic playbook and has an area attack that gives you yet more of the stuff. The last one can't be unlearned, gives you a major boost to resource regen, gives you a solipsist-style "absorb damage with my resource pools", lets you breathe underwater (why?) and boosts various other powers in other ways.

So... if we are to have all of this be *interesting*, the only thing that I can think is that your resource maxima are *tiny*. You care a lot about resource management - enough to have an entire tree devoted to it heavily. Your resources have a natural regen at base state. If you had a large pool, then, the answer would be to devote those points elsewhere (or possibly go 1/1/?/x to get ichor for the side benefits and damage absorb, and maybe chromatic sink if the blast+heal was solid) and just rest frequently. The only way this relentless focus on regen makes sense is if you expect to be touching bottom in one or more pools fairly regularly relatively early on in many fights, and being forced to make do with what you are recovering in the moment. By the same token, I'm guessing that the sustains don't take a whole lot of those maxima because otherwise, the "some regen improvement" sustains wouldn't be worth it.

Alternate thought - you'd have to rewrite this tree a bit, to make it less sustain-heavy, but what if you made chromatic sustains not cost max (like every other sustain) but instead cost regen? That would make a tree full of recovery actually pretty appealing, for those who wanted to slap on a fair number of sustains and still cast.

Ichor is interesting, but it's screaming for a downside. As written, it sounds like it has huge upside and no downside, which is not the sort of thing that should get CANNOT BE UNLEARNED. Something like...
- You no longer have a health bar. Instead, anything that would heal you instead gives you X% of the heal to each saturation bar. Your Saturation bar maxes increase by Y% of what would be your HP, and any damage dealt is split evenly between your non-zero saturation bars. If you take damage while a saturation bar is 0, you are chromalocked for Z turns (which prevents all forms of saturation regain, including the aforementioned heal conversion). If you take damage while two saturation bars are 0, you are also stunned for Z turns. You no longer need to breathe, but being underwater damages you slightly every round, as the pigments wash away from you (this should be a noticeable level, but low enough that it can be counteracted by a reasonable-to-solid investment in passive saturation recovery). Adopting this talent will improve many of your chromatic effects, and those applicable will be marked

[The Revanchist]

So... with the caveat of "this is too nonserious to live", and approaching it as a an exercise for amusement rather than anything else...

Whatever gets the ideas flowing is fine. I'd hope I never reach the point where I say "Darkgod! Make it so or else!" That would be... Illogical, mean and pointless. Or just juvenile.

- I'm a bit confused on how you intend the resource pools to work here. So far, I've picked up that you have three of them, and they have a degree of natural regen. On top of that, you have a tree largely devoted to resource regen. The first talent is split into a passive and a sustain, both of which recharge saturation. The second focuses some of your saturation regen to a specific color. The third borrows a page from the celestial/psionic playbook and has an area attack that gives you yet more of the stuff. The last one can't be unlearned, gives you a major boost to resource regen, gives you a solipsist-style "absorb damage with my resource pools", lets you breathe underwater (why?) and boosts various other powers in other ways.

I actually don't know why non-breathing would be necessary. It seemed good at the time, I suppose. Not sure, myself, which is saying something. Other than that, I think that's the gist of it.

So... if we are to have all of this be *interesting*, the only thing that I can think is that your resource maxima are *tiny*. You care a lot about resource management - enough to have an entire tree devoted to it heavily. Your resources have a natural regen at base state. If you had a large pool, then, the answer would be to devote those points elsewhere (or possibly go 1/1/?/x to get ichor for the side benefits and damage absorb, and maybe chromatic sink if the blast+heal was solid) and just rest frequently. The only way this relentless focus on regen makes sense is if you expect to be touching bottom in one or more pools fairly regularly relatively early on in many fights, and being forced to make do with what you are recovering in the moment. By the same token, I'm guessing that the sustains don't take a whole lot of those maxima because otherwise, the "some regen improvement" sustains wouldn't be worth it.

You know, that is a pretty great idea. I hadn't decided how exactly to manage the resources. Lower maximum values makes sense.

Alternate thought - you'd have to rewrite this tree a bit, to make it less sustain-heavy, but what if you made chromatic sustains not cost max (like every other sustain) but instead cost regen? That would make a tree full of recovery actually pretty appealing, for those who wanted to slap on a fair number of sustains and still cast.

I really like this idea. That'd be a unique take on it, for starters. I think that thematically, it makes sense as much as anything else here, and its equally well into the "not conventional" mold we seem to be casting.

Ichor is interesting, but it's screaming for a downside. As written, it sounds like it has huge upside and no downside, which is not the sort of thing that should get CANNOT BE UNLEARNED. Something like...
- You no longer have a health bar. Instead, anything that would heal you instead gives you X% of the heal to each saturation bar. Your Saturation bar maxes increase by Y% of what would be your HP, and any damage dealt is split evenly between your non-zero saturation bars. If you take damage while a saturation bar is 0, you are chromalocked for Z turns (which prevents all forms of saturation regain, including the aforementioned heal conversion). If you take damage while two saturation bars are 0, you are also stunned for Z turns. You no longer need to breathe, but being underwater damages you slightly every round, as the pigments wash away from you (this should be a noticeable level, but low enough that it can be counteracted by a reasonable-to-solid investment in passive saturation recovery). Adopting this talent will improve many of your chromatic effects, and those applicable will be marked

No matter how much I liked the last idea of yours, I can assure you, this is far better. And also my original idea for Ichor. I didn't know it was possible to take away the healthbar though. Based solely on the fact that it is universally used by every class I know. Being able to remove it would be much better. And have that aformentioned downside. "You want to nuke everything? Better make sure they die, or you'll be in trouble!" Sort of deal. I like it.

[Sirrocco]

It's true. It may not be possible to remove the healthbar entirely. It is possible to cripple it, though - reduce the total number of HP in it to the point that it may as well be gone entirely (drop con contribution to 0, subtract from max HP, and so forth).