Sun Paladin Suggestion

[Nori]

I love playing the Sun Paladin but he has some serious mobility problems... Plus I always feel like I have too many class talents and not enough to spend it on. So I'd like to propose he gets Battle Tactics locked. Greater weapon focus would help with weapon damage without being too much, stepup would help a lot with mobility and the other two skills could be useful as well.

The Celestial/Circles would also be a superb locked class category and would fit well with how the Paladin is played. Though the whole costing negative thing would cause issues.

Also I'm curious as to why Technique/Combat Techniques is a locked category for the Paladin? He desperately needs rush. He is totally screwed by good archers or spell casters because he can't ever close range. None of his other skills allow him to close in or increase speed so you are then reliant on very lucky equipment or infusions (assuming you aren't playing undead).

And one last thing. Martyrdom is a blah skill. It requires 5 points to be effective and even then, if I read it right, you still take the damage. I can see it being useful in a few rare situations but otherwise it is a high positive cost, expensive talent. Maybe it could reduce damage from that target? Also making it not cost a turn would greatly improve it.

Thoughts?

[Sradac]

Magic vs magic works well. As does putting up a bubble to close the distance. Ive never really had survivability issues as a sun paladin.

[Nori]

It isn't the survivability that is a problem. It is mobility. They have no abilities that allow them to close with ranged characters. Rush is a category unlock, there is no controlled phase door. No step up, no bonus move speed, no jump, leap or anything of that sort. Just seems like a nearly pure melee character needs something to help close.

Also, Paladin doesn't have many class talent options. Arcane blade has something like 6 unlockable trees. Paladin's have just one (don't know that I'd include the rush tree as that really should be unlocked already). Almost all classes have at least 2 most have a lot more. Just seems like something is missing

[SageAcrin]

Sun Paladins get some of the best damage reduction and healing in the game; The mobility's mostly the balancer.

Without that, Bulwarks would have nothing on them.

[Nori]

True, but they also have rather poor damage. I thought that was the balance?

I'm just looking for more class trees to allow more variety, and preferably one that allows a bit of mobility. Everyone builds paladins the same way because there is only one way to build them.

Not sure what other trees would fit then...

[SageAcrin]

Their damage is only poor relative to physical fighters.

It's quite easy for them to burst 2k damage, and 3k is not impossible thanks to Counterstrikes.

[Sradac]

They arent the only ones that have limited mobility, reavers are in the same boat. All reavers get is dark portal which dosent exactly close distance.

[HousePet]

They don't need mobility, they have ultra tankiness.

I would like see them get Glyphs, as it would help greatly with maintaining their positive energy.
And they should really have Sun at 1.3 mastery, they are Sun Paladins.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

But glyphs are darkness and light, so unless we design a new glyph based tree for them, that won't happen. They are SUN paladins, not Sun and Moon paladins.

[HousePet]

Glyphs are pure light. Circles are both. (which is why I'm thinking of doing some sigils that are pure dark...)

Anyway, I've given Glyphs to Sun Paladin in the current version of Midnight, so we can see how it plays.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

I would've sworn that glyphs were dark+light, with positive/negative generation for both. I withdraw my complaint if that isn't the case. Will definitely give sunpally a run with glyphs, though I wasn't real impressed with them on Anorithil (where circles make them look like cheap toys).

[Sradac]

glyphs are good in the fact that their range increases with talent level to help you setup better traps

[Nori]

You all do make good points. I just think they need more locked trees to allow for more diverse play. I looked through the talent trees and honestly don't know if any would fit (given the objections to the ones I've already mentioned).

Maybe if the Sun tree wasn't so blah... The second skill is great, but the rest aren't that great. Raising their mastery of it to 1.2 might make it more attractive.

Still wouldn't mind seeing Battle Tactics though.

[HousePet]

I wouldn't mind a high level casting category. Would interesting to play the class as a pure light caster. Anorithil doesn't really work without the dark part.

[SageAcrin]

Getting locked Glyphs would certainly be interesting, and fairly harmless.

Sun Paladins are pretty linear on build choices right now.