Lock cunning/survival for summoners.

[BoomFrog]

Summoners have few enough weaknesses and I don't see why they need to have access to such good stealth and see invisible. They already get a ton of benefit from Cunning. I think Cunning/survival should start locked for them. At least then they will be surprised once in a while which will make them slightly more challenging and interesting to play.

On the other hand having to take control of a summon to manually target the square of an invisible opponent with a summons attack is annoying. Ideally summons should detect any creature you can detect. Alternatively summons could inherit your see invisible stat.

I don't know if necromancer minions get see invisible, but they should receive the same change that summoners do.

[SageAcrin]

There are so few classes that actually have good uses for Cunning/Survival, even when it is unlocked, that I can't really see this.

Any class can potentially get Piercing Sight from an escort; Few classes have low enough Generic options for putting points into something they'll probably get free to be a good idea.

Summoner's an exception, though. And, if Summoner's too good, I don't think attacking an underused category's the right method to go about it. (I don't really think Summoner's too good. Really, really good, yes...) And no one will ever, ever unlock this category for a Summoner, once it becomes locked.

On the other hand, I see their poor stealth and invis detection as one of the more interesting flaws of the class, and one they can usually mitigate enough to escape and slowly kill the threats that have such abilities. Strengthening them there would be much more impact than closing up Cunning/Survival for them.

[HousePet]

It was very useful when you needed to disarm traps to stop your critters repeatedly triggering them.

[jenx]

On nightmare mode, this tree becomes more important. If you don't spot a skeleton master archer, you die mostly straight away , for example.

[Kaja Rainbow]

If anything, I actually think more classes should get it unlocked. It's not exactly overpowering, and if you invest generic points into it, you aren't investing them elsewhere.

[Amphouse]

Don't think this is the right way to nerf summoners, if that's what you want. I think player summoners should be affected by summoning destabilization, just like the enemies are currently. Would act as both a nerf and add some more consistency between player and enemy characters.

[SageAcrin]

Only if I get to summon eight critters at once, like enemies do.

[wobbly]

Though much longer summon cooldowns would make them more like their description of fighting alongside their summons & less constant summon spam. Not necessarily suggesting it, it would make it a very different class. I'd probably find them more interesting to play that way, just as long as they got something else to balance it.

[Amphouse]

Only if I get to summon eight critters at once, like enemies do.

I've never actually seen that happen, but I've never played on Nightmare either, so...yeah. Is this because enemy summoners have 50 billion cunning or do they just ignore the cunning limit?

I'll admit that adding summoning destabilization could significantly change their playstyle, but I'm ok with that; it consists of far too much fire drake spam currently, anything that lessens that is a plus in my book. Maybe to make up for less summon spamming, the summons could last longer?

[Mewtarthio]

Enemies get Summoning Destabilization because their summons have no Cunning caps and usually last until slain.