guaranteed psychoport torque

[wyzzarrdd]

this item is such a gamechanger, particularly for anit-magic builds, that I think there should be a guaranteed one somewhere

possible locations

1. reward for completing antimagic training
2. reward for killing grand corruptor as AM (best idea imo)
3. dropped off of Ben
4. guaranteed in ruined dungeon vault
5. reward for everyone for killing urkis upon return to derth
6. reward for completing 4 t2s
7. guaranteed to appear somewhere in nur 3

[SageAcrin]

Ah, yes, let's remove any reason at all for some classes to go non-antimagic.

[ohioastro]

The arcane item ban is pretty major.

[CaptainTrips]

What's up with the abundance of people recently wanting to do away with any vestige of contingency in their character builds? I've noticed quite a bit of complaining (not that the OP is complaining here) about any bit of randomness that gets in the way of one's ultra-specific, highly unorthodox designer build. I guess doing away with any of the guesswork is part and parcel of the min/maxing 'experience', but to me it just makes the game more predictable and ultimately less interesting.

[nate]

While I agree that a guaranteed psychoport wouldn't be a bad idea (and yeah, corruptor seems like the right place for it), I'm in general agreement with Trips.

It seems like a lot of people are playing the game with a plan for 50 in sight, and I feel like the more fun way to play is to try to work around your plans getting disrupted. I like it better when the decision to go anti-magic or arcane is one that is best made in light of how the game is going, rather than one a player makes at character creation and sticks to.

This is something that has come up with regards to mindstar mastery, which is another situation where some players were unhappy that they weren't able to plan their character fully before birth.

Each individual bit doesn't matter much (which is why a guaranteed psychoport isn't really a big deal, seems like a fine idea) but when a lot of things shift that way, you lose the strategic part of character development.

I think the natural rebuttal is, "Well, let me play the way I want to play, and you play the way you want to play," but it doesn't really work that way. Strategy is about responding to challenges. When those challenges disappear, the strategy disappears. Self-imposed rules can't replace the fun of strategic thinking. The constraints are necessary to the enjoyment, at least for me. In my ideal version of ToME, there would be more uncontrollable events to push my development in various directions, not fewer. Even an unwinnable game wouldn't be a failure, not if there was meaningful retirement. Unfortunately, there aren't any solutions that make every player happy.

The next step in this thinking is to make all inventory objects available, like with an artifact merchant or something. I think you could probably see how that would remove some of the fun of the game.

[Darkmere]

Strongly against this. Antimagic has plenty to offer as it is, without removing one of the very few risks to taking it. Going Zig is a pretty big choice, and shouldn't get one of the (if not the) major downside completely trivialized for no real reason.

Mindstars, staves, and armor (and if there were more than a handful of them, exotic weapons) are core character concepts that should be available to those who qualify, just like Antimagic is. But they ARE the big character decisions that should require some forethought. I'm against trivializing those choices too, like guaranteeing a Lost Staff or something, in case people pick staff mastery and want it.

The general direction (and hence, difficulty) should be in the players' hands, but there should still be some risk vs reward involved. Guaranteed psychoport removes all risk for AM users, and they're not THAT uncommon anyway.

[RetZ]

While I agree that a guaranteed psychoport wouldn't be a bad idea (and yeah, corruptor seems like the right place for it), I'm in general agreement with Trips.

It seems like a lot of people are playing the game with a plan for 50 in sight, and I feel like the more fun way to play is to try to work around your plans getting disrupted. I like it better when the decision to go anti-magic or arcane is one that is best made in light of how the game is going, rather than one a player makes at character creation and sticks to.

This is something that has come up with regards to mindstar mastery, which is another situation where some players were unhappy that they weren't able to plan their character fully before birth.

Each individual bit doesn't matter much (which is why a guaranteed psychoport isn't really a big deal, seems like a fine idea) but when a lot of things shift that way, you lose the strategic part of character development.

I think the natural rebuttal is, "Well, let me play the way I want to play, and you play the way you want to play," but it doesn't really work that way. Strategy is about responding to challenges. When those challenges disappear, the strategy disappears. Self-imposed rules can't replace the fun of strategic thinking. The constraints are necessary to the enjoyment, at least for me. In my ideal version of ToME, there would be more uncontrollable events to push my development in various directions, not fewer. Even an unwinnable game wouldn't be a failure, not if there was meaningful retirement. Unfortunately, there aren't any solutions that make every player happy.

The next step in this thinking is to make all inventory objects available, like with an artifact merchant or something. I think you could probably see how that would remove some of the fun of the game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Anyway, beyond that I think for a lot of people winning or losing due to player skill is a lot more fulfilling/less frustrating than living/dying due to chance.

As for the psychoport torque, I don't think its actually needed. This isn't like Mindstar Mastery/Staff Combat where a character is entirely screwed if they don't manage to get an escort with it, characters without psychoport are very playable, including most melees. I think if there are some melee lacking natural escapes so badly that they require psychoport to function then that is what needs to be looked at (and I do believe a lot of the melee classes need some buffs in the defense/mobility department).

[SageAcrin]

The arcane item ban is pretty major.

Not... really, for some classes.

Doomed and Solipsist really don't have major reasons not to go AM-Guidance is a better light for them than Eldritch Pearl, Umbraphage isn't much worse for them. And the rest of the slots...all the good Mindpower armor isn't arcane, there aren't a lot of major rings for mindpower that are Arcane, the best mindpower belt and one of the two good hats are not arcane(and most of the normal helmets and belts aren't either), it's really mostly Dakhtun's for actual losses. And good Warmaking gloves aren't a big drop.

Considering they already leverage AM the best of most classes to start with, it's a bit painful to see how few of AM's penalties they suffer for even as it stands.

I kinda would like to see Silk Robe of Spydre get made Arcane, to be honest. That'd be nice and reasonably thematic, and a notable arcane item hit for them without being a devastating loss(Robe of Force earlier, and Chromatic Harness later, exist.).

[tylor]

I have similar problem with physical wild. There is just not a single one on entire west continent (I play shalore TW archer). I hope I'll have enough DPS to break through that ice that Master will put me in. Worked with Lake Nur boss...

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

I have similar problem with physical wild. There is just not a single one on entire west continent (I play shalore TW archer). I hope I'll have enough DPS to break through that ice that Master will put me in. Worked with Lake Nur boss...

Infusions are ridiculously common, they can be purchased in at least 4 different stores. (Zigur, Derth, Last hope, and whatever the thaloren place is)

Now, as for psychoport, **** no. Having to take a chance on losing mobility is part of the price for an antimagic character. I say this as someone who despises movement infusions with a passion, viewing them as pathetic wastes of space compared to teleport runes, and having to swap the latter for the former upon going antimagic places a HUGE crimp on my ability to play. Yes, It can be done, but it's quite difficult to not have that mobility. Antimagic is VERY powerful for tanking, and the classes MOST in need of mobility are the ones that already tank so very well. The price you pay for the added buffs is to lose even MORE of your mobility options.

Definitely disapprove of guaranteed psyhcoport.

[Infinitum]

Hmm? Movement infusions are like a controlled blink on crack as long as you can avoid being surrounded (Dreamwalk, Wanderer's Rest etc). Relying on Psychoports as an escape is recipe for disaster unless you exclusively use them to get out of vaults.

That said, I don't like getting a guaranteed one. Being able to play sidegrade character builds without hassle != guaranteed equipment drops.

[donkatsu]

First, I think psychoport torques are good, but not good enough to "trivialize" the antimagic decision if it wasn't trivial already. It basically frees up an inscription slot that you would otherwise have to spend on a movement infusion. You can usually make do with one less inscription slot until you get Guardian's Totem or something.

Second, if you think psychoport torques are game-changingly good, then it seems to me that rather than make it guaranteed, it should be made weaker or its competitors should be made stronger. I do think it is far and away the best non-artifact tool to be wearing, only because removing 2 poisons or blocking 13 fire and cold damage for 6 turns are basically worthless. Making an obvious choice (wear the psychoport torque) guaranteed just further obsoletes the alternatives.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

fatigue reduction picks? There are other options. Among the artifact set would exist tooth of the mouth (ridiculously common) and any number of rares that could drop a few stat points or healmod, etc.

Clear mind can be ridiculously useful sometimes too, especially for someplace like the maze.

As for not relying on psychoport, you must be on something. It's ALMOST as good as a teleport rune. The only distinction is that the teleport rune has a minimum range and psychport doesn't. Yes, your psychoport might flub and move you 3 steps, but your teleport might bounce you into a cluster**** of nasty dragons and storm giants on daikara, when all you wanted was to get away from rantha. Neither one is perfectly safe, but they are the best option for kiting bosses you can't tank in one sitting, which a GREAT many characters need to do. For instance, I offer the master in Dreadfell. Movement will pretty much NEVER help you there, courtesy of the swarm he comes with. Teleport/psychoport on the other hand will get you away from him enough you can rest, let talents cooldown, heal, and give his minions time to fade out if your patient. Sure, you could avoid being swarmed with phasedoor and movement, but if you could do that you could just teleport instead and use fewer slots to do it. And dreamwalk/dimension step aren't available to everyone, and present pretty much a similar issue. Takes several turns to try and get away, drastically increasing the threat level. Plus, you might not get clear enough for movement to get you out, and without that your just guaranteed to lose a life. While it may be a valid option, and this is only my opinion, for an escape I'll take the long range 'get me the **** out of here' button over an iffy phasedoor and movement infusion combo.

[stinkstink]

I do agree that most of the charms at the moment are too weak or scale too poorly with material level to be useful. Heal 160 on a 35 turn cooldown in Dreadfell? That's not much more than what a skeleton does with one hit.

[SageAcrin]

Second, if you think psychoport torques are game-changingly good, then it seems to me that rather than make it guaranteed, it should be made weaker or its competitors should be made stronger. I do think it is far and away the best non-artifact tool to be wearing, only because removing 2 poisons or blocking 13 fire and cold damage for 6 turns are basically worthless. Making an obvious choice (wear the psychoport torque) guaranteed just further obsoletes the alternatives.

I wouldn't mind nerfing Psychoports, but it's worthy of note that no one would use them then. Which is sorta a shame, standard tools aren't used a ton to start.

Making all the tools as useful for Antimagic as Psychoports are is both hard to do from a design standpoint-if people want an escape, they want an escape, not something else-and extremely hard to avoid producing accidentally busted for non-AM options.

I suppose the latter could be fixed by making Torques AM instead of Psionic, but that opens up its own can of worms(an entire devoted subset of normal equipment for Antimagic?).

(Non-Artifact Tools in general are probably a bit weak, I agree, but just making them better won't fix the problem, since...as mentioned, people want an escape, and one that doesn't fill the role that Movement provides-which is mostly teleports and very similar to teleport things.)