[SVN] Enable Lichform quest for Adventurers

[SageAcrin]

As near as I can tell, they don't get the quest for it enabled anywhere, unlike Necromancers.

Unlike some of the other options they don't get(like a Golem), there's not really a reason not to enable Lichform for them, outside of confusing new players.

Golem enabling would take more work than a few lines of copy-paste mostly, since every Adventurer starting with a Golem, as opposed to those that invest in the appropriate trees, would be messed up. Ditto mindslot enabling, which is, I believe, the other major thing they can't do at all-feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, since I haven't played the SVN yet, just read it. Considering they're mostly bonus, I don't think fixing either of those issues is a major priority.

Considering this is a class designed to be unlocked post-clearing, I would hope that kind of confusion wouldn't be a big issue. More options for the option god class!

[Sradac]

outside of confusing new players.



Considering this is a class designed to be unlocked post-clearing, I would hope that kind of confusion wouldn't be a big issue. More options for the option god class!

You kinda said it yourself there, new players arent even going to be seeing this class

I think the no lich isnt much of an issue. They arent a dedicated necromancer, they shouldnt be as powerful as one. Just like they arent a dedicated alchemist, they shouldnt have a golem. Not a chronomancer, shouldnt have the sustain that reduces paradox over time.

The only thing I miss that they should have is mana regen. Even if it was only like a base of .10 or .15 instead of the standard .25 would be nice. Thats the only resource they cant get back. Vim, hate, sta, celestial, equi, etc. all have ways to refresh your resources without relying on a rune / talent / gear.

[bricks]

I don't see any reason why a joke class that can get every talent tree shouldn't get access to literally everything class-related. Lichform and golem included. Same goes for Spacetime Tuning. Mana regen is a weird one. Lichform quest should probably be granted with access to the corresponding talent tree; perhaps Golem, Spacetime Tuning, and Innate Mana Regeneration could be granted as special, normally invisible categories that just grant those abilities when starting a game (though I'm suggesting this without any idea of how the Adventurer class works).

[SageAcrin]

Mana regen is granted at game start on the class-that should be really easy to do as well.

Abilities like Spacetime Tuning do as well, though I assumed that it was like how Alchemist Gems show up with Stone Alchemy-I think Spacetime Tuning may show up with Chronomancy. Not certain though.

And yeah, it isn't about fitting/not fitting-the accursed positive-using chronomancer wyrmic solipist dabbler isn't very thematic. If it helps, the 1.0 means that Lichform has a hard time hitting full potential(not impossible, one staff boosts Necrosis, but), since it caps out at modified talent level 6-this is in fact another reason I'd like to see them able to use it, because it means that a capped Lich for an adventurer is actually different from that of a Necromancer.

I kinda agree on the every ability thing, but it is still a semi-gag/neat silliness class. Putting actual heavy work into the ability reassignment is something left for whenever DarkGod feels like it, but the Lichform thing is just copying a few lines from the Necromancer birth to Adventurer's, I think.

[Sradac]

btw, have you tried to use actual necromancy on one yet? Another granted on birth is the necros aura, I know when I rolled an adventurer just to play one I didnt have it. And I dont think any class tree grants it, cause you cant unlearn the aura as a necro just the summon minions if you dont want to use them.

[SageAcrin]

From what I've heard, Stone Alchemy learners get Create Alchemist Gems on unlocking the category(I think it was on unlock, not getting the locked version). Which is stored in the same file as the rest of Stone Alchemy.

I assumed it was a matter of you automatically getting associated skills in the same tree when you learn the category-that'd mean Necrotic Minions would get the Aura and Chronomancy learners would get Spacetime Tuning. (The latter makes sense, since...otherwise the new Chronomancy escort skill learners, in trunk, would be only able to heal Paradox with Rune of the Rift.)

But no, I haven't tested it or found the exact code describing the learning process. If someone wanted to test, that'd be cool.

[Avianpilot]

Chronomancy learners learning Spacetime Tuning would be nice. I remember asking about Paradox reduction in IRC when learning Chronomancy became possible, and the response was that the only options to reduce Paradox were either to use the Rune of the Rift, or let it accumulate enough to spawn an anomaly. I'm not sure if that was a "this is how it is now" or "this is how it should be" statement, but that's what I heard.

[Mewtarthio]

It's this little code in the "Extract Gems" talent:

Code: Select all

	on_learn = function(self, t)
		if not self:knowTalent(self.T_CREATE_ALCHEMIST_GEMS) then
			self:learnTalent(self.T_CREATE_ALCHEMIST_GEMS, true)
		end
	end,

Which, incidentally, means that you actually learn how to make gems by learning the first talent of the stone alchemy tree. Subtle difference, but pretty close. It should be simple enough to add that to Throw Bomb, as well. Note that there's a glitch that could show up, in that you should technically unlearn Create Alchemist Gems if you unlearn Extract Gems. That doesn't show up, because you can't unlearn Extract Gems in the first place, but you'd need to pre-empt that somehow if you wanted to make Throw Bomb available to adventurers separate from Stone Alchemy. You could do the same for Necrotic Aura and Create Minions.

Spacetime Tuning should really be a talent for anyone with a paradox pool. Otherwise, paradox generics are pretty much permanently expendable. You should not have a resource that can only be replenished by acquiring a particular artifact. That just flies in the face of ToME's "no expendable resources" policy. Ideally, Spacetime Tuning would be acquired in the Paradox Pool talent's on_learn function (or maybe in Actor's learnPool function), though I'm not sure if that has other implications in the system.

Alchemist golems are a bit trickier. You could add the Refit Golem talent to Golem Strength (assuming you can "rebuild" a golem that has yet to exist; I'm having trouble adding talents in cheat mode to test it). Trouble is, you'd also want to remove that talent if the player unlearned Golem Strength to keep adventurers from cheating their way to a free golem, which would go over poorly with alchemists that legitimately changed their minds about that talent. Perhaps you could set it up so that, at the end of the turn, the game checks to see if the player has the Golemancy tree, and if so, gives them Refit Golem if they don't have the talent already. At that point, it would be too late to get the category point back.

TK Grasp and Beyond the Flesh are even worse, since they mostly just enhance the mindslayers' existing powers without really being tied to a specific talent. Rather, there are a number of talents that simply assume you have them (such as Greater TK Grasp and Reach). I suppose TK Grasp and BtF could be added to all of those talents individually, but that could lead to some odd build where an adventurer goes out of his way to learn, say, Conduit solely to get the telekinetic weapon. This seems like the sort of thing that would require working out on a case-by-case basis, and it might simply be too much trouble for what is basically a just-for-fun little cheat code.