Staff combat talant tree rework idea

[Strongpoint]

Hi, staff combat is an underpowered talent tree, and IMO needs some reworking, because currently it's just not worth taking from alchemist escort

First level, "channel stuff" is surely useful, ranged attack without cooldown have it's uses and it's good for every alchemist, but for any other magic user it's redundant, there are enough better direct damage options for them. Another problem with channel staff is that it's mostly useless to whack enemies with staff in melee, unless you have mana problems. Hybryd classes that decide to switch to staff have their strength and dexterity basically wasted

Second level is same as weapon boosting ones, not the best option to spend generic points if you don't do majority of damage with the staff. Some archmage spending generic points on that = lol. Only hybrids that switched to staffs may take it

Third level... minor defense boost as mana sustain effect with additional drawback... really, there are many ways to spend generic points in some more useful way

Fourth level, at last we have something that encourages whacking with staff, but for 4th level it's just ridiculous, and if you are a typical magic user, you'll not have enough accuracy to use it reliably (and if you are magic user, you try to stay out of melee). Hybrids may take it, but it's still not cool

In short: majority of talents aren't very good even for alchemists, and spending category point + chance to take something else is just a waste

I propose new tree like this:

1) Channel staff, Leave it as it is
2) Leave it as it is
3) Add physical damage to staff (not channelegable, of cause), scaled on strength and accuracy scaled on dexterity. Maybe as mana based sustain. Level 5 should grant an ability to treat staff as two-handed weapon for berserker talents
4) Better melee attack with some bonus effect, ideally bonus effect should vary depending on staff type

This tree will be much more valuable for some classes and will not screw alchemists

And, maybe, add a trainer to Angolwen, it's logical to have staff combat trainer in mage's city

[eliotn]

For channel staff, reducing the mana cost to 1 would be a good buff. Makes it more appealing as a standby attack when low on mana, and prevents it from being too draining on alchemists.

3) Add physical damage to staff (not channelegable, of cause), scaled on strength and accuracy scaled on dexterity. Maybe as mana based sustain. Level 5 should grant an ability to treat staff as two-handed weapon for berserker talents

That sounds like a bad idea. If you are using a staff, you are generally not gonna want to be in melee anyways, and you aren't gonna have high strength and dexterity. I would instead have it be a sustain, that adds an appropriate amount of arcane damage based on spellpower to both staff attacks and channel staff.

4) Better melee attack with some bonus effect, ideally bonus effect should vary depending on staff type

I don't know what the fourth ability should be, but having it be a melee attack is a bad idea, unless the goal is to get the enemies away from you.

And, maybe, add a trainer to Angolwen, it's logical to have staff combat trainer in mage's city

I support this idea. Trainers to add generic trees allows for more diverse character builds.

[edge2054]

I'd prefer if staff combat was made more beneficial to staff users then more beneficial to berserkers.

Maybe the tree could be reimagined as staff mastery and give bonuses to spell damage and other such effects while using a staff or for X turns after using channel staff. Keep channel staff in my opinion and ditch the rest.

Thoughts?

[bricks]

I think "channel staff" should be a staff-granted or trainer talent (like Shoot), and then the tree should be about augmenting the staff (and using other new staff functions like the "command staff" ability), sort of what edge is saying. It'd be an interesting ranged option for any class, and I find it odd that staves aren't combat options for the many other classes that typically wield them. I know that on Arcane Blades and Reavers, it would be nice to have a ranged weapon to flip to, even if it's not very powerful.

The mana cost on channel staff is so inconsequential right now. It's only a factor for classes that have no means of regenerating mana in the first place. Perhaps there is an easy way to adapt the resource to the class/type of staff used, or just eliminate it altogether?

[Strongpoint]

I don't like that, it's look like

Maybe the tree could be reimagined as staff mastery and give bonuses to spell damage and other such effects while using a staff or for X turns after using channel staff. Keep channel staff in my opinion and ditch the rest.

Thoughts?

IMO this is shorter way to say: Staffs should act only as boosters for spells.
I really dislike that approach, why stick empowered with serious magic should make strictly worse weapon than some mace?

I do like to see staff combat more useful for berserker, because combat is what berserks do. It would be fun to adapt to some nice mag+ items and wield a staff. Or even make a crazy build with pumping points into magic, mainly for staff using.

[eliotn]

I think "channel staff" should be a staff-granted or trainer talent (like Shoot), and then the tree should be about augmenting the staff (and using other new staff functions like the "command staff" ability), sort of what edge is saying. It'd be an interesting ranged option for any class, and I find it odd that staves aren't combat options for the many other classes that typically wield them. I know that on Arcane Blades and Reavers, it would be nice to have a ranged weapon to flip to, even if it's not very powerful.

The mana cost on channel staff is so inconsequential right now. It's only a factor for classes that have no means of regenerating mana in the first place. Perhaps there is an easy way to adapt the resource to the class/type of staff used, or just eliminate it altogether?

This is a good idea. However, staff mastery should not be a poor alternative to magical attacks, but a supplement. Ideas:

-An instant channel staff ability, where the cooldown is incremented every time you use an Active spell that takes at least one turn.
-Autochannel, a sustain that repeatedly casts channel staff at a nearby target each turn, with the drawback of doing less staff damage, at least until it is upgraded. Alternatively, automatically hit nearby targets with channel staff whenever you cast a spell.
-Grant a benefit to casting spells after channeling the staff, such as increased damage.

[Strongpoint]

What about much simplier thing?

No rework, but a tariner in Angolwen? I'd really like to experiment with staves, but spending category point and escort rewards on this is just too costy

[Winds]

Hi, how about following?

1 - leaving as is, good old shoot staff.
2 - ward\shield - based on element of staff.
3 - reshape effect of shoot staff talent from bolt to cone, ball, ray, wave.
4 - staff mastery.