Remove the Combat Accuracy talent

[Laerte]

And give an accuracy effect to the respective combat mastery. From half to full the actual combat acuracy effect. A balance would be needed.

A mastery imply using better a weapon (or punches), not just hitting harder. A little (0.5%) per level chance to critical would not hurt too. This is the way T2 (weapon submasteries), Diablo 2 (barbarian and assassin masteries) and many other games work. This move would allow for more diverse builds, as the generics talents would be more available - at least for physical classes.

An option would be giving a quarter to a half of the effect of combat accuracy to the selected combat mastery and keep combat accuracy, but with a max of 5 points.

I like the first option more, as most people do not max combat accuracy anyway.

[Final Master]

I would prefer this and would be willing to invest points even if it was still 10 points. I say merge the respective mastery talent with combat accuracy.

[kazak 2]

Yes please.

I would prefer this and would be willing to invest points even if it was still 10 points. I say merge the respective mastery talent with combat accuracy.

I'd be more willing to invest in other generic trees with the freed up points--survival, harmony, antimagic, escort trees, etc..... Currently, this 10 point talent is just something I feel like I have to invest in regardless, at the expense of other more interesting builds, just to be able to do basic bump damage or use other talents that you're already dumping points into. It's just boring.

There's probably a psychological component, too. Like, I really have no idea how many points I actually need to have in combat accuracy for the game to not suck. I generally know that both STR and DEX up accuracy, and that any melee build is going to be pumping one or both of those stats. Yet there sits that accuracy talent, and at 10 points to boot, and not really knowing how much is really "good enough" I just unhappily toss points in there by default.

Doesn't seem like rolling that into the mastery talent and freeing up a few more generic points would make a character a rolling powerhouse of carnage either.

[Silvermoon]

Having your melee hit % versus any foe listed in it's mouse-over tip would greatly help with knowing how much is 'enough'.

[lukep]

Having your melee hit % versus any foe listed in it's mouse-over tip would greatly help with knowing how much is 'enough'.

If you are spoiled, it isn't that hard to figure out from the defence value shown, I'm not sure what would be best there.

Accuracy is tough to decide what's enough for a character. Most of the time 30-50 is enough, but dreads require about 90 to hit consistently if you can see them, or almost 200 if they are invisible. It's the edge cases that kill your character though, so you need to build for it.

[Aquillion]

Having your melee hit % versus any foe listed in it's mouse-over tip would greatly help with knowing how much is 'enough'.

I would go with this. I know some people might consider it giving away too much information, but IMHO clear mechanics are better than obfuscated ones -- the fact is, accuracy is already a clearly-defined number; giving it to players and then obfuscating exactly what it means by not giving them exact accuracy percentages is just frustrating.

[jotwebe]

I'd like to see the to-hit % on look/mouseover, possibly just rounded to the closest 10%.

As for merging combat accuracy and mastery, I'm against that. It's nice that it's possible focus on one at the expense of the other. You can always keep 'em at about the same level if you want that. What's the point in taking away choice?

[Zonk]

What's the point in taking away choice?

I don't see how that applies, actually. If accuracy and damage were simply merged and you had leftover generics....and you'd have to choose WHERE to spend those.
I think that in many cases, the choices would be more interesting - because hitting/damaging more is useful but not exactly exciting, while (some)generic talents can be pretty fun.

[Laerte]

As for merging combat accuracy and mastery, I'm against that. It's nice that it's possible focus on one at the expense of the other. You can always keep 'em at about the same level if you want that. What's the point in taking away choice?

The choice you mean is just a matter of generic talent points scarcity. Who would not like to hit more and harder? The proposed merge is to give the player even more choices: extra generics to invest in racial trees, field control, survival, antimagic, harmony, fateful aura, hexes etc.

[jotwebe]

The proposed merge is to give the player even more choices: extra generics to invest in racial trees, field control, survival, antimagic, harmony, fateful aura, hexes etc.

Just don't max those skills if you need more generic points. They have diminishing returns, you don't miss out on that much. If the skills were just merged (and you are proposing that, right?) every point in the new "combat" skill would be twice as effective as it is now. It would be a no-brainer to boost that skill, unless the effects would be reduced accordingly so that you still get the same "bang-per-generic-point" as you get now... or am I missing something?

[bricks]

I think defense needs more diminishing returns. Dreads and other super-dodgy enemies are just incredibly difficult for melee classes. (Really, I think these could stand to be split into a few different mobs. Summoning, invisibility, wall-walking, dispersion, high defense, and hexes all on one enemy. Right. Perhaps they should also throw boulders and split into two when they take more than 0.1% total health as damage.)

[eronarn]

Dreads and other super-dodgy enemies are just incredibly difficult for melee classes. (Really, I think these could stand to be split into a few different mobs. Summoning, invisibility, wall-walking, dispersion, high defense, and hexes all on one enemy. Right. Perhaps they should also throw boulders and split into two when they take more than 0.1% total health as damage.)

You forgot that they confuse!

[Laerte]

They have diminishing returns, you don't miss out on that much.

They will still have diminishing returns. In the OP I said:

From half to full the actual combat acuracy effect. A balance would be needed.

the accuracy effect could be toned down.

every point in the new "combat" skill would be twice as effective as it is now.

From my point of view, the actual design made this artificial split between accuracy and damage. I would expect a combat mastery should raise both by default, so in my opinion, the points invested in accuracy and combat mastery, as it is today, have half the effect they should have. Of course you may need to bump accuracy sometimes, to fight tough enemies, and you should have other talents or items to give that burst.

It would be a no-brainer to boost that skill

Its your combat mastery, you generally want it high, no?

[Final Master]

See, now some of you guys are asking for something else and too much. What's wrong with you with wanting to know so much? Why can't you just, I don't know, ATTACK, see if you hit, and then judge weather the fights worth it or not from that. Why in the world would you want to know your %chance to hit any given npc? You know you don't have to kill/fight everything right?

[Grey]

Well, currently what's the point of knowing your accuracy and the enemy's defence? Technically for every enemy you *can* find out your chance to hit by digging through the convoluted source and doing the crazy maths. Why not let the game do the hard work for you? And of course it makes the game more transparent, which I personally think is one of the key traits of ToME4 compared with other roguelikes.