Re-balancing the Shade in Kor'pul

[marvalis]

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	blind_immune = 1,
	bleed_immune = 1,

Change this to:
blind_immune = 0.3
stun_immune = 0.7
bleed_immune = 1,
poison_immune = 1,

Reason: Freeze if a more powerful effect than blind. Removing blind immunity and adding stun resistance will help balance this boss. Skeletons are poison and bleed immune.

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[Talents.T_MANATHRUST]=4,
[Talents.T_FREEZE]=4,
[Talents.T_TIDAL_WAVE]=2,
[Talents.T_WEAPONS_MASTERY]=3,

Change this to:
[Talents.T_MANATHRUST]=4,
[Talents.T_TIDAL_WAVE]=2,
[Talents.T_WEAPONS_MASTERY]=3,
[Talents.T_BATTLE_CALL]=5,

Reason: This is the second boss in the early game. At this point new players will not have stun immunity or resistance to deal with an overpowered 6-turn freeze effect. This leads to many death for new players simply because they did not have the right equipment. Since this is the early game, this is unacceptable for balance reasons. I tried to look for a balanced spell for the early game that immobilizes but I could not find any (assuming the player does not have the overpowered 100% pinning immunity from items). Since the shade is described as 'It wields a nasty sword and strides toward you, throwing spells' I thought it would be appropriate to give it battle call. This will put the player next to the shade instead of being frozen several tiles away, giving them a chance to fight back. There is synergy with tidal wave.

The boss description and inventory are inconsistent (sword or staff? Which one is it?):

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This skeleton looks nasty. There are red flames in its empty eye sockets. It wields a nasty sword and strides toward you, throwing spells.

	body = { INVEN = 10, MAINHAND=1, OFFHAND=1, BODY=1 },
	equipment = resolvers.equip{ {type="weapon", subtype="staff", defined="STAFF_KOR", random_art_replace={chance=75}, autoreq=true}, {type="armor", subtype="light", autoreq=true}, },

[Miruko]

totally agree, sometimes i get frozen even before seeing the shade, it has insane range and low cooldown, permafrozen to the death.

[marvalis]

freeze has range 10,
the shade has range 10 infra-vision.
I do not know what the normal view range is for the shade.
The dungeon is dark, and players will probably only have a range 3 or 4 light source.

Maybe some day in the future infra-vision range for monsters will be balanced (reduced to 4 or 6 depending on the type), and then sneaking around without light will become a tactical option.

[bricks]

I think the real issue is positioning. The Shade will engage at maximum range, so your best bet is to live through the first Freeze, and then try to get somewhere where you can fight him directly, perhaps through a teleport ability. This can be difficult, given that the Shade has two very good ranged spells. Giving the player more tactical options (walls, etc.) would go a long way towards making this fight approachable for new players.

The simplest solution? Give (non-Shalore/Undead) player characters a more useful Wild infusion, one that can remove magical effects. One free get-out-of-freeze card.

[marvalis]

Yes positioning is the problem.

freeze(4) has a 11 turn cooldown
infusion(wild) has a 12 turn cooldown

This could work (if you know exactly what is going to happen, and know exactly how the game works, then you will know to use your infusion and to keep it for this encounter).
We could add walls to make the room smaller.

Despite these facts, I think it would be more interesting for new players like this:
You have no idea what to expect.
You move around the corner
You move closer
BAM! A manathrust in your face from range! (range 10)
Uh-oh wow what is that? You cannot see anything in the darkness
You move closer (carefully)
Shade uses battle call -> you are pulled next to the Shade, up to 7 tiles away (range 7).
U-oh! What is going on? Can I run away? No, the corner is to far away! There are no walls to hide behind!
You look at the Shade
You attack the Shade and do x damage
Shade uses tidal wave
You are knocked back!
Uh-oh.

Compare with:
You are frozen!
*wild infusion*
Manathrust
you move closer x3
Manathrust (cooldown =3)
you move closer x3
manathrust again
You move closer x3 or attack or rush or whatever
manathrust again
You attack
You are frozen (wild infusion is on cooldown for 1 turn).

[tiger_eye]

Description of The Shade: "This skeleton looks nasty. There are red flames in its empty eye sockets. It wields a nasty sword and strides toward you, throwing spells."

So, how 'bout giving The Shade a lite of radius 1, and bonus points for making the light red (could just be a separate particle effect) to represent the red flames in its empty eye sockets. Adding this would allow the player to see The Shade coming from full range, and make the boss look cooler

As far as marvalis' crusade to overhaul freezing, stuns, and other things that go "bump" in the night, I'd just like to say I've gotten to the far east several times while completely ignoring stun resistance. I don't think things are as unfair and unbalanced as I think you think they are.

[marvalis]

did you see my post about urkis chainstunning the player?

iirc stun immunity grants immunity to daze too?
Do you honestly think this is balanced?

Sure you might get lucky, the AI is pretty damn stupid (In my tests it took him a while to get a decent combo off that killed me with thunderstorm).
So yes, you can get to the east with ease if you know the game, play carefully and have a bit of luck.

But you can also be unlucky. The only way to avoid this is stun immunity.

On-topic: Yes, red light would be cool but it would remove the surprise. For new players, I want to make this boss fight as unpredictable and exciting as possible.

[edge2054]

But you can also be unlucky. The only way to avoid this is stun immunity.

No. This is wrong.

On-topic: Yes, red light would be cool but it would remove the surprise. For new players, I want to make this boss fight as unpredictable and exciting as possible.

I agree and I think giving him a light radius so he's visible would help a lot.

[Hedrachi]

I usually get frozen as soon as possible, and for people using kor'pul as their 2nd dungeon (or first), freeze at that level can be very bad. I personally have not died because of an iceblock here, but I've come close MANY times. Not sure I think I like blind resist 30% because every other skeleton (he appears as an 's' in ASCII) is immune to blind.

tl;dr: Yes to remove freeze, no to drop blind resistance by 70%.

[eronarn]

Giving him a light radius is probably enough though changing the layout of his vault might help. He's really not that hard to kill, but he's placed in a way that makes it very annoying to actually fight him.

[Grey]

Reducing his freeze power to 1 instead of 4 would at least help a lot.

tiger_eye suggested on IRC giving him a particle effect of two glowing red eyes - now that would be funky to see :)

[marvalis]

@ Grey that would be interesting to see, but (Just pointing out):

Skeletons are blind immune because they have no eyes or at least not flesh and blood eyes that would reasonably be susceptible to bright light.

Having said that, I am always a big fan of new graphical effects. Two glowing eyes in the dark could be fun indeed.

@eronarn and edge:
Wouldn't you agree that giving light to a Shade in a dark room is at least mildly thematically inconsistent?
Not as bad saying he is wielding a sword and then equipping him with a staff ... but still ...

[Aquillion]

Code: Select all

	blind_immune = 1,
	bleed_immune = 1,

Change this to:
blind_immune = 0.3
stun_immune = 0.7
bleed_immune = 1,
poison_immune = 1,

Strongly disagree with this. Giving every boss stun immunity defeats the purpose of having stun in the game in the first place, given that ToME is so heavily about bosses. Contractual Boss Immunity and Useless Useful Spell (which are basically the tropes your suggestions would shoehorn into ToME) are bad things.