Revisiting adventure mode resurrection

[yufra]

The way adventure mode resurrection currently works it to move the player from the site of death to the stairs (possibly the same place), drop all sustains and temporary effects, and restore the life/resources of all NPCs on the level. There were some issues with this when the player was not getting a chance to act first for example, leading to multiple chain deaths. These have been sorted out (hopefully) but it made me start thinking about what the object of adventure mode resurrection is (abbreviated AMR).

I believe AMR is there to help people learn from their mistakes without having to restart, thus reducing frustration and allowing people to see more than they would otherwise. The current AMR gives the player a second chance at the level, but does heal the NPCs. In some cases the second time will actually be more difficult (think summons), in other cases less so (nearly empty level now).

The specific idea I am considering is having AMR work like the chronomancy talents. Upon entering any level a save of the entire game state is made and held in memory, and death would return to this state and subtract one life. What are the benefits of this strategy? Well it gives the player an identical difficulty for the level (no extra summons, but the level is full) but the player now has some meta-knowledge of the level (where creatures are, what didn't work, etc) and thus should be able to modify their strategy (or just get lucky) this time around. The code is already there to handle this, and I don't think there would be a significant hit to performance particularly since there is already a background save going on when you enter a level. Thoughts?

[edge2054]

I think it's a good solution though there will be a performance hit. Mostly on saving and loading from what DG has said. The performance hit is also a compounding one (which is part of the reason we're planning on not having chronomancy effects overlap to much).

Worse case scenario would be Adventure Mode Resurrect, Revision, and See the Threads which would be between 3 and 5 cloned levels in memory at once.

Of course, we could make Chronomancy classes Roguelike+ only which removes any issue of overlap.

[yufra]

I hate that. lol. Simply put if I find something on that level that is of interest I don't want dying to keep me from having it. I also don't want to redo xp levels just because I fumbled myself into a catastrophe.

I would rather have something like Torment OR Nwn:HOTU where you die, go to oblivion and some angel or golem or whatnot resurrects you and then you portal back to where you died. Give you achance to reset any cooled down sustains which is the #1 cause imho of chain deaths since sustains often mean the difference between survival and not.

I guess this is my fault for not explaining this well. All items and drops are generated upon entering the level, and the only way that I can think of for additional item to appear is through summons which yes, could be different from level to level. The level would be saved AFTER it had been generated, so everything would be the same (again, save summons). Resurrecting to a "safe place" could also be an option, sure.

[yufra]

As I said...I don't want to rewind xp gains. I know that seems odd but it starts to feel like groundhog day after awhile and that seems dumb. Could save scum for the same results.

Fair enough and duly noted. Anybody else have thoughts on this?

[Marcotte]

Fair enough and duly noted. Anybody else have thoughts on this?

Well, one of the problem with the resurrections is when the player get put back in a situation that is just as (or more) dangerous than the one that killed him. And there are pretty much only two kinds where the player cannot simply takes the stair to flee the danger: the crypt (and other stair-less levels) and ambushes.

To make it such that dying in such circumstances doesn't lead to chain deaths, I would suggest forcing the player out of the level / ambush to the wilderness, as if he had used the rod of recall. That way, you won't get chain deaths and the player is sufficiently punished (the level will be repopulated with monsters when he will be back, and he may have to go through other levels to get there).

[edge2054]

Porting the player to a 'death plane' like the demon plane on res and giving a few turns to prepare before being ported back sounds reasonable.

Yes you end up right back where you died but you can't have your cake and eat it too. It also circumvents a lot of problems with levels not having stairs to be ported back to in the event of a death.

[Grey]

I like the other plane idea - it gives some in-game context to the revival.

[PowerWyrm]

Some levels don't have stairs so yes, having extra lives when dying on such levels is pointless: the dead character should be kicked out of the level. I like the idea of another plane, like an "adventurer's heaven", where you can decide to be brought back to life and carry on your adventure.

[darkgod]

Yeah it's like my previous idea of having somebody come to the rescue.
I did not do it because in some places it just does not make sense.

So now, in next beta you'll have the Eidolon Plane !

[edge2054]

So now, in next beta you'll have the Eidolon Plane !

This makes me want to play on normal.

[PowerWyrm]

Eidolon plane?
I thought you didn't want to get trouble with Tolkien-related lawyers, now you gonna get trouble with Squaresoft ones

[darkgod]

??
That was my idea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidolon_%28apparition%29

[PowerWyrm]

Ah so it's not copyrighted

[Postman]

I like the Eidolon plane! Can we have some quests for it too? And mabby necromancer/shaman class with talents related to Eidolon?

[Postman]

I like the idea of a spirit character. In some game designs I have had for browser rpgs that was one idea I put forth so that death has more meaning than simple resurrection.

Questing to regain your body and items could be interesting. Now I know people are going to be upset about potentially losing valuable items (but the really important point is: don't die) but you will eventually get them back if you complete the quest. There should be an option to fast forward this but at the expense of something valuable to the character.

It'd suggest character would lose not everything, but only most valuable artifacts(ego items)
Even more: In the spirit of PS:T some quests (and spirit plane classes unlocks) available only through the death.(Roguelike players can use life blood or skeleton reassembly)