Random Afflicted Thoughts

[uightpt]

I'm using the experimental hate addon--I like it, because it means that I can rest without utterly crippling myself. However, side-effect: I almost never run out of hate. The combination of Feed and any sort of passive hate regen means that I need a literal hoard of enemies before I see a serious dent in my hate. That might be fine, but we should consider that a potential concern. I like it.

[astralInferno]

accordint to a "very reliable" source, (a.k.a fan fiction) they are the ghosts of their victims.
that doesn't necesarily have to be magic.
just like you can curse the items you find, you can also curse some souls binding them to you...
as for some of those ghosts being mages... well punishment? but magic is still magic. you allowing them to use it makes you the one responsible, therefore you have to be purged.

(raises eyebrows)
You noticed how the author of that was arguing the other side, right?

The entire reason I said they were the ghosts of their victims is to explain why they could use magic without zigur being mad.

[HousePet]

I'm using the experimental hate addon--I like it, because it means that I can rest without utterly crippling myself. However, side-effect: I almost never run out of hate. The combination of Feed and any sort of passive hate regen means that I need a literal hoard of enemies before I see a serious dent in my hate. That might be fine, but we should consider that a potential concern. I like it.

That is entirely expected as the talent costs or regen/degen speeds haven't been tuned.
It certainly needs some other tweaks so that you will sometimes have a good reason for not resting after every battle, like if your Hate is above 50% and you have some nice temporary stacking buffs that will run out quickly.

[Radon26]

ok, in this entire thread, you have not said once anything about them being ghosts of their victims...
but just to make sure i made the search and you are indeed the author of that story.
(and btw, it seem to have ended).

so you say it was to explain why its ok... now lets compare this situation to something.
you can't say "it wasn't technically me who murdered that guy" if you hire the killer in front of everyone...
most of the zigur are extremist, and allowing someone to use magic may be just as bad as doing it yourself.

but i guess that's just my opinion, and everyone is going to say "offtopic" because this topic is not about zigur...


now, if you can make him able to make a choice, keep magic or go without it, then the magicless ones can stay in zigur and there is no problem. but if you put too much magic into him, some other changes will have to be made as well.

[Matanui3]

There are tons of ways to spit fire and lightning without it being a spell - just look at Wyrmics and Mindslayers! - but it just happened that spells were the talents given to the shadows. Maybe those effects (on pre-existing abilities, and thus less work) just fit better than cones and whatnot. It could easily be explained away by saying it's not actually magic (though the name of the talent would have to be changed).

Though I would love a choice replacing the current curses tree, or maybe instead like the current Cursed Memento choice (but with abilities attached instead of an item): Do you give up the dregs of the magical gifts that got you cursed, or do you hold on to whatever you can, still thirsting for more power?

[HousePet]

For possible effects when you either max or fully empty your Hate bar (Ooo we could have multiple, but that might make it complicated to plan around):

Consumed by Fury (hate bar maxed) - Increased global speed but decreased defence and saves.
Overlaps a bit with Rampage, but its a class independent bonus and Rampage could do with a rewrite. Three talents for buffing a single timed effect is a bit weird. (Maybe Rampage could auto activate with Consumed by Fury?)

Consumed by Despair (hate bar emptied) - Increased resist all but decreased global speed.
You just don't care anymore, even wounds don't seem to matter.
Overlaps a bit with the Solipsism debuff, but they are similar thematically.

These effects are supposed to be neutral in power, but potentially have useful synergies with Fury or Despair flavoured talents. eg. For Cursed: Becoming Consumed by Fury could auto activate Rampage for free. Becoming Consumed by Despair could boost Gloom's power/radius.

[Sheila]

Well my 2 cents on the idea is that they could work somewhat like certain league of legends character, which I'll put a short description for here:

Code: Select all

Renekton's abilities have no cost related to them and their use is limited only by cooldowns. Instead, he uses FURY as his secondary resource. 
Renekton starts with 0 FURY and it is capped at 100. Renekton gains 5 Fury with each auto-attack, and the use of his abilities. 
When Renekton has 50 or more FURY, his next ability will consume 50 FURY for an enhanced effect. 
FURY will decay at a rate of 4 per second if Renekton has not dealt or received damage in the last 12 seconds.

I thought this could be an interesting concept to work with in regards to hate, right now it can either be annoying to manage or seemingly not matter (but it still cripples you at random times for no real reason.)
So what it could mean for hate as a resource would be that you'd start at 0, and bumping/using talents would make it go up, and if the conditions for hate are met your talents could deal out a much stronger effect or buff or what have you in exchange for x% of your hate, like 50% for a doubly powerful [attack talent here] or an additional hp heal on top of the talent, or whatever. Of course talents could still have a base cost but in this case I'd say they should be lower, assuming this was how the resource worked. The decay is debatable.

Also unrelated to my earlier idea but I think fatigue is irrelevant to hate both from a functional and logical point of view and needs to go?

[HousePet]

Thematically, you already Hate everything. So I don't think its appropriate for it to be a combo meter or start at 0.
So I'm sorting of thinking of it as a reserve of psionic energy that is channelled by your hate. In the absence of you using the energy, it regenerates to the baseline value. In the absence of anything to make you angry, it degenerates to the baseline value.

As for fatigue: It doesn't really make logical sense for any resource other than stamina. However, there could theoretically be a similar effect for each other resource as well. Mechanically it would be silly to have multiple fatigue type stats and it works as a general counterbalance to heavy armour.

[Mordy]

Although having massive armor have no effect on hate would really be a nice fit for the closest melee range spellcaster class in the game from a purely gameplay point of view :p

[HousePet]

True, but then you would need to build strength.
But with Feed you don't really ever run out of Hate so who cares about fatigue?

[Micbran]

I feel like doomed need another locked talent tree of some sort. Fears are... Not good, to say the least and one with the shadows is great! But that's the only category you get. Maybe another darkness tree with more accurate LoS denial or perhaps a defensively focused tree that's more close range in nature for those people who like to gesture rude things to enemies. The thing with doomed is, I always feel like you're always going to put points everywhere. Meanwhile, with solipsist, you might not invest in 1-2 talent trees at all.

[cttw]

Fears is good on long boss fights with 4/4/0/0.

[astralInferno]

Fears is great if you have enough talent points that you can go 4/4/4 and actually have other talents. There's an evil glee in dumping half a dozen different status effects on people.

[HousePet]

So I read about Mudra today, and its pretty much exactly what I've been thinking could be weaponised into a generic unarmed/mindpower category to replace Gestures.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudra

[astralInferno]

I really like gestures, I just wish you could combine it with... well, anything other than the one doomed tree it goes with.