Tweak shield/heal/regen runes/infusions some.

[edge2054]

I'm certainly not against Sradac's idea. I think spicing up the egos is neat in fact.

But it doesn't really address the core issue. Shield/Heal/Regen are the primary means of survival for many classes and currently their effectiveness is almost entirely in the hands of the RNG.

[Sradac]

maybe a way to level up or upgrade inscriptions? That way if you only find lowish heals / regens / shields you aren't as screwed. Right now if you try to have more than 2 of any given type of inscription you cant. Maybe give an option to "fuse" two of them together which will move them up to the next "tier" of inscriptions? So your 40 + 40 shield runes can become a 100 rune, or a 60 + 110 regen becomes a 200?

I dont know how the effects are calculated exactly, if inscriptions run on tiers like other items or not, and it shouldn't be a direct upgrade of values because if you found a 300 + 300 regen you suddenly get a massive 600.

[grayswandir]

I'd just be in favor of making several copies of the same inscription at different tiers with the different powers.

Instead of:

Code: Select all

newEntity{ base = "BASE_INFUSION",
	name = "regeneration infusion",
	level_range = {1, 50},
	rarity = 15,
	cost = 10,
	material_level = 1,

	inscription_kind = "heal",
	inscription_data = {
		cooldown = resolvers.rngrange(12, 17),
		dur = 5,
		heal = resolvers.mbonus_level(550, 60, function(e, v) return v * 0.06 end),
		use_stat_mod = 3.4,
	},
	inscription_talent = "INFUSION:_REGENERATION",
}

Something like:

Code: Select all

newEntity{ base = "BASE_INFUSION",
	name = "regeneration infusion",
	level_range = {1, 10},
	rarity = 15,
	cost = 10,
	material_level = 1,

	inscription_kind = "heal",
	inscription_data = {
		cooldown = resolvers.rngrange(12, 17),
		dur = 5,
		heal = resolvers.mbonus_level(150, 60, function(e, v) return v * 0.06 end),
		use_stat_mod = 3.4,
	},
	inscription_talent = "INFUSION:_REGENERATION",
}
newEntity{ base = "BASE_INFUSION",
	name = "regeneration infusion",
	level_range = {10, 20},
	rarity = 15,
	cost = 10,
	material_level = 2,

	inscription_kind = "heal",
	inscription_data = {
		cooldown = resolvers.rngrange(12, 17),
		dur = 5,
		heal = resolvers.mbonus_level(150, 210, function(e, v) return v * 0.06 end),
		use_stat_mod = 3.4,
	},
	inscription_talent = "INFUSION:_REGENERATION",
}
--...

All the way up to 40-50.

[Sradac]

that would work too, and I think kind of explains what I mentioned with I dont know if they have "tiers" like other gear or not. Your solution would pretty much make that happen

[HousePet]

But it doesn't really address the core issue. Shield/Heal/Regen are the primary means of survival for many classes and currently their effectiveness is almost entirely in the hands of the RNG.

Actually, it does. By removing the stat scaling egos and upping the base values, you end up with around three times as many potentially good inscriptions. (characters tend to have 2 main high stats, which is 1/3 of the possible stat scalings)
You wouldn't have to worry about a good base power inscription rolling with the wrong scaling stat.
Also, the base values of inscriptions could do with bumping up a bit. Nobody will ever need a Healing infusion for 30 life, a Regeneration infusion doing less than 100, etc.

Tiers isn't needed, as the item level covers the game progression scaling. However, tiers could be used to restrict the minimum power of an inscription? Could do that with item level anyway though.

[donkatsu]

But it doesn't really address the core issue. Shield/Heal/Regen are the primary means of survival for many classes and currently their effectiveness is almost entirely in the hands of the RNG.

Actually, it does. By removing the stat scaling egos and upping the base values, you end up with around three times as many potentially good inscriptions. (characters tend to have 2 main high stats, which is 1/3 of the possible stat scalings)
You wouldn't have to worry about a good base power inscription rolling with the wrong scaling stat.

Actually, it doesn't. Edge was referring to Sradac's post immediately preceding his, which neither proposed upping base values nor getting rid of stat scaling.

[HousePet]

Oh, that was add not replace.

[edge2054]

Even if Sradac had meant it that way, stat scaling is the only consistent factor on inscriptions. Aside from which stat it scales with of course. But I'll put my odds on 1 in 6 or 2 in 6 over the variance expressed in that screenshot I linked earlier.

Personally I would set all cooldowns and durations to something static. Lowering the chance of a good value being wrecked by a really bad cool down. Then I would go with gray's tier scaling, since it keeps inscription power levels consistent with game difficulty.

If more variance is needed add some more egos. Decoupling Sradac's idea from stat egos while still letting them stack would be a way that could work.

I'm also a fan of a static merchant. Especially one that shows up only once. A dwarven caravan for instance that can appear as early as trapped and beast within that always has the same gear list could really help round out an early game character without giving them everything.

[Sradac]

maybe even give the merchant an artifact or two, that way people that already have good inscriptions still have a use for him. I'm thinking vargh's redemption and girdle of calm waters. Good gear, not OP, and now that we've increased the number of artifacts I actually hardly ever see those ones drop these days.

[grayswandir]

Personally I would set all cooldowns and durations to something static. Lowering the chance of a good value being wrecked by a really bad cool down. Then I would go with gray's tier scaling, since it keeps inscription power levels consistent with game difficulty.

Here's an idea: If we did the tier scaling and static cooldowns/durations, we could have a 'low cooldown' ego and a 'long duration' ego as appropriate. That is, you could either go for an extra power ego (of stat), or a utility ego (of duration/of speed).

[Doctornull]

Here's an idea: If we did the tier scaling and static cooldowns/durations, we could have a 'low cooldown' ego and a 'long duration' ego as appropriate. That is, you could either go for an extra power ego (of stat), or a utility ego (of duration/of speed).

Huh, so putting all this together, we could end up with a prefix ego set:
- Quick (lower cooldown)
- Lasting (longer effect duration)
- Secondary buff effect (the previous idea about a per-stat boost which varies based on suffix ego type)

That's a pretty solid set of buffs. Also, the Quick & Lasting efficacy could be tied to tier, entirely divorcing tier effects from the base efficacy of the inscription.

[HousePet]

Basically just the same egos that charms get.

I think removing the stat scaling is a good way to go, but anything that reduces the insane variance is good.

From looking at the code, it appears that the base power of the inscriptions can roll anywhere between the base value and the maximum value. So that looks like the main source of the variance.

[edge2054]

Stat scaling is the only thing consistent about inscriptions. Why remove the only thing that isn't causing this issue?

[HousePet]

Because it is also a major source of variance?

As in the rng rolls a good inscription, and then rolls the wrong stat on it.

[Delmuir]

This was an interesting discussion…

The variance is ludicrous, or at least that is my position. More so, the shops are useless. I almost NEVER go to the shops because they don't refresh often enough and my gear from drops is usually fine.

Ultimately though, not getting a viable shielding rune early on can destroy a lot of builds (I'm looking at you Cursed).

I like the stat scaling but even more, like the idea of tiered runes so here's my suggestion, using only a shield rune as an example of the principle that I endorse:

1. Shops should refresh more often… approximately every 10 levels.

2. Runes and infusions should be offered at tiers appropriate to your level: tier 1 at levels 1-10, tier 2 at 11-20, etc… have the odds of higher tiered rune dropping from dungeons be the same as other items.

3. Eliminate the "normal" runes and inscriptions in white text… what's the point of them anyway?

4. Ex. Shield rune at tier 1: 50-100 damage base, scales to magic (or whatever stat) at TWO per stat. Tier 2 shield rune: 100-200 damage base but scales at 2.5 per stat, etc. Have the scaling be listed.

Thus, better tiered runes have better effects. You can cap it at three per stat or whatever… I don't care about the actual numbers as I'm sure you'd all know better than I what would be OP or not.

5. Cool-downs… this is the big one to me. I absolutely refuse to carry a run/inscription with a long cool-down. A long cool-down in this game is death and the variance is madness. A shield rune could be 60 damage, 24 cool down, and a three turn duration or it could be 300, 14, and 6 turns. Is that worth restarting the game? Of course it is.

To fix that, I'd suggest giving them all the lowest standard cool down. There's not point in having the longer ones and don't split the difference… just make it the shortest because most players will prefer the shorter duration, even if it's slightly weaker in power.

6. Duration: This is also a pretty big deal for gameplay… some builds only need three turns to do what they need to do but others might need four or five and that difference can be critical. To fix that, I'd suggest reducing the variance by tier. For ex. a tier 1 shielding rune could be three turns or four but nothing else. A 2 could be four turns or five but nothing else. A tier 3, the same. A tier 4 is five or six turns, and tier 5 would be six or seven or eight turns.

I don't mind that a shield rune (or whatever) not necessarily show up in the shop to start the game but you are going to need one eventually and if the shop refreshed every 10 levels or so then you'd have an incentive to check more often and it could affect how you built your character.

7. Offer more "egos" for runes… just a few minor things that show up in the shops. Maybe a bonus to all resistance caps on a shield rune? Then, a player might keep a tier-3 shield rune until the game's end rather than getting a stronger one simply because it has a helpful ego on it.

I'd especially like to see these features on runes/infusions:

+ resistance cap
+ elemental heal (whatever the proper term for that is)
+ sight range

Anyway, just my thoughts...