Archer Improvement Thread.

[Doctornull]

Archery doesn't suck, it's just bland and a bit underpowered to use as the absolute basis of what a class does, when hybrids like temporal warden seem to be getting the best of all worlds, leaving archer behind.

"Bland" + "underpowered" + getting "left behind" by better classes = sucky, IMHO.

Bland + powerful = a good starter class for noobs.
Interesting + underpowered = a class for experts.
Bland + underpowered = a thing which ought to go away.

If it can't stand on its own, then the Archer's tools should be used by new hybrid classes (like the Time Warden) which can bring more to the table.

When I'm done working out how the Talent addon stuff works, I'll post my Hate and Vim based hybrid archer ideas.

[Kaja Rainbow]

When I'm done working out how the Talent addon stuff works, I'll post my Hate and Vim based hybrid archer ideas.

There's already a Hate-based archer.

[Doctornull]

When I'm done working out how the Talent addon stuff works, I'll post my Hate and Vim based hybrid archer ideas.

There's already a Hate-based archer.

There's only one?

You're failing to dissuade me.

[b0rsuk]

NEW TALENT IDEA:
Shoot Down Projectile
The idea is that archers, unlike mages, have great reflexes and aiming practice, which enables them to shoot projectiles down. If you see Congeal Time or other not very fast missile in a corridor, your best option may be to shoot it down. If you see Fireflash or Inferno, you may want to detonate it so it explodes in the caster's face.

This idea owns. It would add immensely to fun gameplay. Imagine detonating some jerk wizard's Fireflash right next to him.

I'm happy that you like it. It FITS the theme of heroic/high fantasy. Geralt (the protagonist of the Witcher books) was able to deflect single arrows with his sword.
Activated "Shoot Down Projectile" would probably have a downside - cooldown. I think we agree that shooting an arrow should be simpler than casting a spell, so I think the skill should have low cooldown, say 2 turns to outperform casters.

[Doctornull]

Activated "Shoot Down Projectile" would probably have a downside - cooldown. I think we agree that shooting an arrow should be simpler than casting a spell, so I think the skill should have low cooldown, say 2 turns to outperform casters.

Casters have skills like Deflection Shield which puts some percent of your damage on that guy over there.

This sounds like a differently limited mechanic, but potentially similar in power. Its limits could be stuff like cooldown, and also stuff like being bounded by your Accuracy (ie there's a miss chance), and also limited to projectiles -- good luck with those golem eyebeams and Wyrmic cone attacks.

[b0rsuk]

Activated "Shoot Down Projectile" would probably have a downside - cooldown. I think we agree that shooting an arrow should be simpler than casting a spell, so I think the skill should have low cooldown, say 2 turns to outperform casters.

Casters have skills like Deflection Shield which puts some percent of your damage on that guy over there.

This sounds like a differently limited mechanic, but potentially similar in power. Its limits could be stuff like cooldown, and also stuff like being bounded by your Accuracy (ie there's a miss chance), and also limited to projectiles -- good luck with those golem eyebeams and Wyrmic cone attacks.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Deflection Shield is something you enable and then it works automatically for several turns... ?
This is not what I'm proposing. I was about to suggest the skill as a passive, but then I realized I want to have more interesting choices to make when playing an archer. This mostly means activated abilities. Passive and duration abilities are nice for raw power and damage numbers, but they rarely make the game more interesting to play.

And fireflash exploding in the face would be somewhat rare, I mostly think of the skill as a somewhat niche defensive skill that requires some thought.

[Kaja Rainbow]

There's already a Hate-based archer.

There's only one?

You're failing to dissuade me.

Just wanted to point it out. If you still want to do it, cool.

[Doctornull]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Deflection Shield is something you enable and then it works automatically for several turns... ?
This is not what I'm proposing. I was about to suggest the skill as a passive, but then I realized I want to have more interesting choices to make when playing an archer. This mostly means activated abilities. Passive and duration abilities are nice for raw power and damage numbers, but they rarely make the game more interesting to play.

And fireflash exploding in the face would be somewhat rare, I mostly think of the skill as a somewhat niche defensive skill that requires some thought.

Actually I meant Displacement Shield, d'oh.

What Displacement Shield does is:
- You cast it (active) and you choose a target.
- For the duration OR until some maximum amount of damage is transferred, there's a chance that any damage inflicted on you will instead be teleported to the target.

It's super powerful, more powerful than your proposed arrow interception in fact, but my point was just that the idea of shifting around attacks (within some limitations) is already in the game, and also that your idea is not overpowered compared to what an Archmage can do. There's also a Time Warden talent which has a 20% chance to transfer an attack on you to someone hostile within a 2 square range.

[darkgod]

Archers are now great.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

Code: Select all

imbuying it with great power.

Should be 'imbuing it with great power.'

Also, Awwwww... no arcing shots sustain. I still think would fit perfectly for (Edit: Bow) archers, but I guess it was a hassle to code.

[SageAcrin]

It's easy to miss, also, since the title for the commit is different, but Archers now have 1.2 category rating locked versions of both Poisons and Traps, in addition to the new tree.

[HousePet]

Do poisons work on arrows?

[SageAcrin]

Just on sling bullets.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

As a thought, if complexity isn't an issue, would it be too much to make an instant sustain attached to bow mastery (which is currently only passive) that would add an arcing shots effect when the sustain is on? (On or off, doesn't interfere with regular bow mastery bonuses) This still improves bows a fair bit for archers, and prevents it from creating logic conflicts with slings. (Since it didn't fit on the new tree anyway)

[HousePet]

Just on sling bullets.

...
Change this at once!
Poisons should be applicable to any physical weapon.