Normal/Hardcore renaming

[purge]

I for one love the system of having multiple lives! I like to play relatively fast, and that will often lead to unfortunate YASDs in this game and in other roguelikes. If I can't play relatively fast, I get bored because roguelikes tend to be very very long and repetitive.

[Canderel]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roguelike describes 'roguelike' as follows:
"The roguelike is a sub-genre of role-playing video games, characterized by randomization for replayability, permanent death, and turn-based movement."

For me, Roguelikes are becoming obsolete... ToME-Likes FTW!

Extra lives are a breath of fresh air. If it disqualifies tome as a roguelike, so what? I find it awesome, and I find it great that I can explore, I can open the OOD vault, and see if I can beat them, if I can't I run. If I die while running, well, at least I know what's there now.

I have only finished one or two roguelikes (Zangband, and one of the older tomes with a broken alchemist), so the fact is... I DO NOT GET TO PLAY THE WHOLE PLOT of most roguelikes.

So what if you are a better player and can finish with 1 live every game, on insane. I am not playing for your enjoyment, I am playing for mine.

I don't see any reason why the "elitist" association with Hardcore is wrong? Surely you are playing on hardcore so you can say, I am playing on Hardcore, and you are playing on normal.

If not "Normal" and "Hardcore", I'd propose "1 Life Mode" and "Multi life mode".

[Grey]

So what if you are a better player and can finish with 1 live every game, on insane. I am not playing for your enjoyment, I am playing for mine.

I've not won but I still enjoy dying :) Dying ain't the same when it happens multiple times to the same char (not withstanding in-game methods of ressurection).

I don't see any reason why the "elitist" association with Hardcore is wrong? Surely you are playing on hardcore so you can say, I am playing on Hardcore, and you are playing on normal.

I guess it's cause it makes out like I'm not playing a roguelike. To me I am very much still playing a roguelike, there just happens to be this odd multi-life side game that seems to be popular for some reason ;)

If not "Normal" and "Hardcore", I'd propose "1 Life Mode" and "Multi life mode". :-)

Yeah, this works nice and easy.

[Sirrocco]

To cross-pollinate from the other thread on the topic, I'm going to mention the entertaining idea of "Cat Mode" for the multi-life version. (...since you generally get about nine lives out of it by the end, if you make it all the way through.) Personally, I rather like the pairing of "Cat Mode" and "Roguelike Mode".

[Final Master]

I think I came up with a decently elegant solution:

Tutorial ? The Tutorial
Beginner ? x% lowered damage to player, y% raised healing to player, Extra Lives – No Unlocks
Standard ? Normal game play, Extra Lives
Veteran ? Normal game play, No Lives
Deranged ? x% extra damage to player, y% less healing to player, lowered player rank

[Grey]

I think that's even worse FinalMaster, as it implies people should start the game on the no unlocks mode, and not play the one life mode till they've had years of experience. The one life mode should be a clear alternative for new players, not something that's only for veterans of the game.

[escargot]

I think I came up with a decently elegant solution:

Tutorial ? The Tutorial
Beginner ? x% lowered damage to player, y% raised healing to player, Extra Lives – No Unlocks
Standard ? Normal game play, Extra Lives
Veteran ? Normal game play, No Lives
Deranged ? x% extra damage to player, y% less healing to player, lowered player rank

Yeh, I think Grey is right about the 'veteran' bit. What about Traditional?

I kind of find this whole renaming issue quite amusing, gaming applied semiotics at it's best.

[Canderel]

I really like the Cat Mode name.

Cat Mode and Human Mode?

[Sirrocco]

There's no reason to be offensive about it. The whole point of a name like "Cat Mode" is that it's cute, it's not insulting, but it doesn't imply that it's the default that everyone should be using as a matter of course. Consider:

Position of those that like multiple lives
-- They don't want to be insulted. They don't want the name of their difficulty level to impugn them or suggest that they're playing the game *wrong*. They don't want to the name of their game mode to immediately turn off any incoming newbies, who would feel compelled by pride to play The Other Version, then get frustrated and leave. They don't care all that much about the game's history as a roguelike. This is a not unreasonable position to take (especially since this is largely the camp that the game's creator, the Grand and Glorious DarkGod falls into).

Position of those that like playing with dead-means-dead
-- Their way is the way that the game was played for the vast majority of its history, and they don't want to be marginalized as "those whackjobs who just enjoy pain, what's wrong with them?" by the recent wave of newcomers. They don't want to be made to feel abnormal for just wanting to play the game the way it was when they joined up (however long ago that may be). This is also a not unreasonable position to take.

So, the point, then, is how to make *both* camps happy - to let the multi-lifers play without feeling marginalized and to let the single-lifers play without feeling marginalized, and to have newbies who walk in the gate get the idea "Hey, there are two totally valid ways to play this game, and you can pick whichever one you like without being odd or wrong."

Thus, rather than going for names that basically translate to "the cool kids" and "those freaks over there" (in whichever direction) I would submit that it's better to pick names that are interesting and evocative (and, yes, possibly even cute) without being particularly biased one way or the other. Given that, why not go with all animal names?

- Bunny mode: "Awww. So cute and fluffy. This mode takes it easy on you. (gameplay changes here)"
- Cat Mode: "The game doesn't go out of its way to make things easier on you here, but cats do get nine lives. Do well enough, and you will too."
- Wolf Mode: "You're on your own, kid. Same gameplay as Cat Mode, but death is a bit more final. The world's a dangerous place for a lone wolf."
- Warg Mode: "You like pain, don't you? Well, we're happy to provide. (gameplay changes)"

There. No one gets marginalized, the "Bunny" and "Warg" are written to be appealing to the sorts of people who'd want to play them, (...or at least I tried) and "Cat" and "Wolf" are presented as generally pretty unbiased.

[Canderel]

Love it!!

[escargot]

Hate it!

Nah, really, animal modes?

After so much ranting easy, normal, hardcore and insane seem (safely) fine.

[Grey]

So, the point, then, is how to make *both* camps happy - to let the multi-lifers play without feeling marginalized and to let the single-lifers play without feeling marginalized, and to have newbies who walk in the gate get the idea "Hey, there are two totally valid ways to play this game, and you can pick whichever one you like without being odd or wrong."

Thus, rather than going for names that basically translate to "the cool kids" and "those freaks over there" (in whichever direction) I would submit that it's better to pick names that are interesting and evocative (and, yes, possibly even cute) without being particularly biased one way or the other. Given that, why not go with all animal names?

- Bunny mode: "Awww. So cute and fluffy. This mode takes it easy on you. (gameplay changes here)"
- Cat Mode: "The game doesn't go out of its way to make things easier on you here, but cats do get nine lives. Do well enough, and you will too."
- Wolf Mode: "You're on your own, kid. Same gameplay as Cat Mode, but death is a bit more final. The world's a dangerous place for a lone wolf."
- Warg Mode: "You like pain, don't you? Well, we're happy to provide. (gameplay changes)"

I must say that I find this all oddly appealing...

...I probably won't when I'm sober :/

[Marcotte]

- Bunny mode: "Awww. So cute and fluffy. This mode takes it easy on you. (gameplay changes here)"
- Cat Mode: "The game doesn't go out of its way to make things easier on you here, but cats do get nine lives. Do well enough, and you will too."
- Wolf Mode: "You're on your own, kid. Same gameplay as Cat Mode, but death is a bit more final. The world's a dangerous place for a lone wolf."
- Warg Mode: "You like pain, don't you? Well, we're happy to provide. (gameplay changes)"

That's a cute suggestion that I would endorse. Although I would rename it slightly:
- Bunny: easy/many lives
- Cat: normal/many lives
- Dog: normal/single life
- Tiger: hard/many lives
- Wolf: hard/single life

That way there would be a mode for those who like their game hard, but still prefer multiple lives.

[edge2054]

Cat mode for when your cat jumps up on your keyboard and gets you killed?

Maybe we should call normal 'baby interference mode' for when my son finds my number pad and kills me off.

[Sirrocco]

I don't see a problem with including a "Tiger" mode, if people are really interested in such a thing (is anyone really interested in such a thing? Is there anyone who'd play that option if it was available?) Heck, we could even have a Rat, for easy-mode hardcore (though that's getting a bit silly.) Regardless, I still think that the hardcore side should go wolf/warg. There's no particularly strong attachment of "dog" to "single-player", and setting it as cat vs dog, tiger vs wolf actually makes the dog/wolf side look *weaker*, which is so not the appropriate progression for a difficulty increase. Cats are cool because they're relaxed and suave and unflappable. Wolves are cool because they're savage and violent and live dangerous lives. Giving the feline side the "might and savagery" edge....