Some unbalance changes I'd like to see.

[ster]

Still better than everything else though it drops off hard with armor

It actually doesn't matter at all. Armor doesn't penalize multi hit attacks any more than single hit attacks. Flat damage reduction on the other hand does.

do you know how armor works at all

[dadito]

He's right ster, armor mitigates the same amount of damage on a skill that does 200% weapon damage than on one that does 2 hits at 100% weapon damage

[HousePet]

Errr It shouldn't do the same amount.
Armour is a flat damage reduction, just overly complicated.

[Cathbald]

Still better than everything else though it drops off hard with armor

It actually doesn't matter at all. Armor doesn't penalize multi hit attacks any more than single hit attacks. Flat damage reduction on the other hand does.

do you know how armor works at all

I'm pretty they're right and you're wrong, ster.

If I'm not mistaken, armor applies before damage multiplicator, correct? That's actually the reason armor is so good.

Let's say you have a base damage of 50 (and a range of 1.0, so no variation, but it would work the same otherwise), 0 APR, and your ennemy has 100%/20.

- First case, you make one attack at 200% : First, your 50 base damage is reduced to 30 by armor and stays at 30 after range is applied. Then the talent is factored in for 200% so your damage is 60. If you have bonus damage they are now applied. Let's say you have 10% all damage and you hit your ennemy for 66.

- second case, two attacks at 100% : First, your 50 base damage is reduced to 30 by armor and stays at 30 after range is applied. Then the talent is factored in for 100% so your damage is 30. If you have bonus damage they are now applied. Let's say you have 10% all damage and you hit your ennemy for 33. You now do the exact same thing for your second attack and deal another 33, for a total of 66, same as before.

Can anyone with a good knowledge of the relevant code confirm?

[ster]

words

sawrd isnt doing "two attacks at 100%". it's directly affecting your base damage which is then reduced by armor

[HousePet]

Oh yeah, armour applies before multiplier for whatever reason.

[Cathbald]

words

sawrd isnt doing "two attacks at 100%". it's directly affecting your base damage which is then reduced by armor

The point was that multiple attacks are not worse than single attack against armor, Which you seemed to claim. Of course your base damage is reduced by armor, that's what armor does, and I said as much in my post.

[ster]

Going to hijack this thread with my own list of bad ideas

- Demonologists should get the Doombringer tree with surge of power in it. It's literally perfect for them.

- Buff all the really bad locked categories like radiance by literally just multiplying all their numbers by 10.

- Remove patrols

- Replace anorithil escort Light with Hymns to screw over every class that relied on it

- Make shortstaves their own weapon class with the new proc bonus so Reaver isn't so screwed over

- Tempest of Metal should be usable with any class of weapon

- Remove enemy stealth

- Buff all prodigies to be good compared to current top ones. Nerf cauterize while we're at it since it should not be better than literally every defensive prodigy in every way.

- Make drowning automated: when you start the game on I+ you get the equivalent of one set of LH randboss and one set of LH unique loot. Remove all rare+ from towns except lumberjack village. (this isnt a bad idea but no one will care about or listen to my opinions on this)

- A race that starts in Gates of Morning (mutually exclusive with above idea)

- Merge Sawrd with Murderblade

- Anorithil escorts should use Darkest Light

- Remove starting areas. Everyone now starts in Last Hope or Gates of Morning.

- Steal ideas from DCSS and make dwarves unable to heal

- Steal ideas from ADOM and add the rune covered tride- Oh.

- Ban everyone who i don't like from everywhere