Class idea: Blackened Hand (Arcane Brawler)

[Atarlost]

wouldn't such a mage rather just grab a sword and some platemail?

in game unarmed developed mostly due to lack of access to more traditional weapons so its probably best we give this class a good reason to be unarmed and not just a melee combo class.

You could say the same of any brawler. Angowlen is not known for its blacksmiths, though, so any Angolwyn native combat class has to be either staff or nothing. Staff combat can already be done so a new class only needs to cover unarmed.

[astreoth]

yeah anglowen imports diamonds from dwarves they could easily just ask for a few additions to those shipments if they wanted weapons and with their good relations with elvala theirs another import option their.

they can easily import the options your saying they don't have.

themes can be simple but need to make some sense.

[Planetus]

Let's see:

Mage eater: Wait, mage eater or magic eater? Are you talking about a cannibal? And what would preference such a character to being unarmed? And this seems to preference the character to a much more chaotic class than what I imagined.

Afflicted spellcaster: Well, I suppose if the affliction doesn't burn out the magic, then you won't end up being a doomed, and could be a kind of cursed/mage blend, but again, why go unarmed? And again, this seems to drive toward chaos, not control.

Crystal Corrupted: Lore tells us that the blight itself is corrupting the elements, so the living crystals are blight-infused, and I get the impression that the crystal rats are the same. I don't think you could touch any of the corrupted elements without touching the corruption itself. That seems to be a big problem with your lore proposal. The character would have to be at least semi-vim dependant.

Evil alchemist: There's some promise here, but much of what you're describing sounds to me more like a corrupted alchemist than a brawler/mage, and there's still nothing that would bias that character to foregoing a staff.

Lastly, I don't think an untrained mage-brawler would make much sense. How would they be at all mage? I think a semi-trained mage, turned brawler for a good reason, works wonderfully.

I also think the bored mage turned martial artist, experimenting to bring magic into their own body, is also a viable basis. They could take up sword and shield, but the very idea of giving up a staff suggests they may have already met the basis of life and just want to branch out into something else they find interesting, which could be anything.

[The Revanchist]

Although a mage that has mastered staves and wants to branch out would have to conveniently forego any mastery. So...

For another possible lore tie-in, since we want someone semi-trained, without exposure to blight, thematically not a big stretch... hmm.

As an aside, anyone know how well-stocked Var'Eyal is? I know the Sunwall has weapons to sell, but they don't seem the friendliest.

If that idea runs dry, then perhaps a novice mage captured by slavers, forced to fight to the death in the Ring of Blood while deprived of their staff. Guess what the first quest would be?

[astreoth]

yeah was more throwing ideas to see what sticked than anything else with most of those I'll try going a bit more in depth for them.

Mage eater: Wait, mage eater or magic eater? Are you talking about a cannibal? And what would preference such a character to being unarmed? And this seems to preference the character to a much more chaotic class than what I imagined.

yeah idea here is basically some guy trying to eat wizard hearts to gain their power which while crazy does work with the sandworm heart. reasoning for them being unarmed would be that mutation from gleefully exposing themselves to whatever corruptions they could find would make it difficult to wield conventional weapons and they wouldn't have enough control of their power for a proper caster so stuck with magically mutated fists.

thinking about this now it'd probably end up the kind of body horror thing that would best fit in with defilers so just gonna cross that one out cause no vim allowed.

Afflicted spellcaster: Well, I suppose if the affliction doesn't burn out the magic, then you won't end up being a doomed, and could be a kind of cursed/mage blend, but again, why go unarmed? And again, this seems to drive toward chaos, not control.

yeah this would be someone with the potential to be an arcane blade and a psionic who got lynched by angry villagers before actually developing their powers or any kind of weapon skills.
so like what happened in story of my redemption their betrayed by their fellows and about to be burned at the stake and the trauma awakens their psionic potential.
so then you've got a guy unarmed surrounded by angry villagers screaming for their blood with nothing but chaotic magic they have no idea how to control, their bare hands, and the sheer force of the rage and hatred that now flows through them. they'd pick up unarmed pretty quickly in that situation.

so yeah that covers the unarmed bit and as for chaos you got me there this is pretty much a combination of two very chaotic power sources so not much order here. but is order really necessary for this class.

Crystal Corrupted: Lore tells us that the blight itself is corrupting the elements, so the living crystals are blight-infused, and I get the impression that the crystal rats are the same. I don't think you could touch any of the corrupted elements without touching the corruption itself. That seems to be a big problem with your lore proposal. The character would have to be at least semi-vim dependant.

okay you got me their it would tend more toward vim arcane combo than arcane alone so I'll just let this one go.

Evil alchemist: There's some promise here, but much of what you're describing sounds to me more like a corrupted alchemist than a brawler/mage, and there's still nothing that would bias that character to foregoing a staff.

yeah the staff ignoring comes from the combo of self augmentation alchemy, using your golem as Armour, having explosive gems that make your golem stronger, and the ability to put gems into your golem. so the instructions for drawing unarmed out of that are wear golem, apply gems to palms, let gems infuse hands with elemental power, apply alchemist gems to knuckles, detonate mid punch for yet more power and far less foe, grab opponents face fire golem eye beam through palm gem, drop remaining part of head if applicable.

so yeah unarmed here comes from using gems in your golem Armour to do the magic boosting/channeling you'd normally use a staff for with the added benefit of getting power from your own alchemist gem explosions making a staff redundant. and can drive the point further by pointing out that alchemist gem knuckles > piddly little staff bolt and the explosive fists would be much better than just an axe or something so it works for why no melee too.

Lastly, I don't think an untrained mage-brawler would make much sense. How would they be at all mage? I think a semi-trained mage, turned brawler for a good reason, works wonderfully.

yeah that same argument could be applied to arcane blades or shadow blades proper training is a good advantage but with enough talent it is possible to somewhat figure out magic on your own. so only thing really needed for this is some guy with a lot of magic talent but no proper training figuring it out them selves.

as for the somewhat trained mage ideas

bored mage yeah this is pretty weak I could see a mage specialized in self augmentation magic though, know from arcane blade that its possible but it seems mostly secondary among the archmages of anglowen so that might work.

as for a celestial brawler idea don't think they really have a weapon shortage or anyone they could talk into going out there without weapons considering how badly things are going for the heavily armed and armored guys.

and for novice caught by slavers yeah mages are notoriously difficult to hold prisoner and its not like novices just wander around waiting to be captured and even then theirs no guarantee they'll end up in the ring of blood theirs a lot of people who'd pay a pretty penny for someone who knew the way to anglowen.

however their is another route for semi-trained mage a brand new hidden mage haven maybe with a brand of magic that didn't make it to anglowen like celestial didn't. could do a studied version of the self enhancement magic arcane blades have for it.

or could do a hidden mage thing for mages who didn't manage to find or found a hidden mage haven and had to do a hid in plain sight thing by abandoning the marks of magic like robes or staves and pretending to be a normal villager.

and not wanting to stick out trained in unarmed combat to defend them selves without the attention of being armed or the risk of having to out them selves at the first sign of trouble.

so by my count that's six viable paths

afflicted spellcaster if being orderly isn't a requirement.

evil alchemist

untrained mage brawler

augmentation specialized archmage

new hidden mage haven magic brawler

wizard of pretending to not be a wizard and fists.

[The Revanchist]

I'd knock that down to five. Being discreet and ditching the staff would make sense... But not if it mutilated your body to the point where it was a distinguishing feature. That goes from being practical to being absurd.

As promised I'll drop the Sunwall idea.

I specifically used "novice", in the hopes that they would be one that hadn't yet learned conveyance. My lore-recall is a bit spotty for the spellhunt, but I'm pretty sure they had trouble with the Archmages, " masters of magic", not the archmages' sycophants. Those they tore apart with abandon.

[astreoth]

huh thought we'd given up on the blackened hands bit in favor of just an arcane non vim using brawler, as for the novice thing casting a spell while arrows are flying past your head and an orcs trying to cleave you with an axe is a lot different than just getting it right while locked in a cage.

a novice may not be able to use conveyance in a fire fight but that takes near mastery to remember it quickly enough and do it accurately enough for it to reliably work, without the speed constraints and stress of combat the number of spells a mage can cast is likely much higher so even a novice could probably teleport out of a jail cell given time and a lax enough guard.

so anyway any of those other five seem particularly promising or in needing of clarification.

[Atarlost]

I don't think there's any real reason to fry the character's hands. Other mages can channel magic through their hands just fine without issue. Making the character unable to use weapons is a bit silly: people aren't running around with weapon using brawlers and they wouldn't probably use weapons as this class either.

Having that removed an inconspicuous mage is entirely workable as a motivation.

[The Revanchist]

I don't think there's any real reason to fry the character's hands. Other mages can channel magic through their hands just fine without issue. Making the character unable to use weapons is a bit silly: people aren't running around with weapon using brawlers and they wouldn't probably use weapons as this class either.

Having that removed an inconspicuous mage is entirely workable as a motivation.

Fine by me. I missed the memo.

[Atarlost]

I don't think there's any real reason to fry the character's hands. Other mages can channel magic through their hands just fine without issue. Making the character unable to use weapons is a bit silly: people aren't running around with weapon using brawlers and they wouldn't probably use weapons as this class either.

Having that removed an inconspicuous mage is entirely workable as a motivation.

Fine by me. I missed the memo.

I don't think there was one. I'm just saying that if the fluff is being reconsidered there's no reason not to reconsider the part you were using to discard that explanation.

[astreoth]

alright so blackened hands is officially no longer a requirement and the numbers back to six.

also we're not so much restricting the classes from using weapons as giving the classes reasons to want to beat people to death with their bare hands.

no reason my afflicted spellcaster couldn't just pick up a good old axe after they were done ripping villagers apart with their bare hands same with the evil alchemist if they wanted to block their lasers with a weapon and not unleash explosive punches.

[Lubaf]

One possibility: It's a Yeek development. One caused by their study of the methods of Shadowblades and Arcane Blades, but adapted to use less metal. The shift in elements flows from the more mental focus that The Way grants them. (And, as with Mindslayer training, somehow the basic methods leaked out into the wider world.)

Thanks
Luc "Lorethinker" French

[astreoth]

okay why would such a thing be unarmed instead of just a pure caster

[Planetus]

Astreoth, that's why I started with the fluff of the blackened hands, though I can see 'hiding in plain sight' as an option.

I could also see a second hidden village of mages, but one that's, as a whole, hidden in plain sight, so no open shops with magic staves or runes or alchemist gems, and not the whole town wandering around in ropes with pointy hats. Some may come out trained with swords as Arcane Blades (as long as they hide their origins, given their flaming hands and all), and some may come out as Arcane Fists (or something, whatever we call them). Thus option 1 (kind of rolling untrained and semi-trained together, as it seems to result in the same).

The alchemist wearing his golem (can we stop calling him evil? why is he automatically evil?) could also be another good reason, but then the main feature of the class would be the golem armor/gauntlets(/boots/helmet? full suit?) and gem binding. It's an option, but it's a lot different from what I imagined. Option 2.

I'm also not entirely against chaos, I had just imagined this character as more controlled for that (plus, I hate hate management (and why doesn't that feed my character itself!? )). So option 3 is here.

I also still don't see a reason not to do the burned alchemist option I suggested, so I'm still calling that option 4.

The Ring of Blood option is interesting. The fact that the yeek masters are using magic against you may suggest they've taken mages captive and learned their secrets (I've wanted to get a psychomancer class for a while now), so captive mages are a possibility. Start an unarmed melee mage in the Ring of Blood, beat the enemies to death with arcane fists, and then notice a slight weakness in your controls, teleport into the audience, and start beating the audience to death. Maybe the main master who you normally fight, and most of his guard, are out rounding up more slaves/audience, so you can fight the weaker ones and escape. This is fascinating, but it still raises the question of why you wouldn't take up the staff again afterward. Maybe something in there prevented it (damaged hands, magical scarring, etc) or maybe what you discovered fascinated you enough to do so. Option 5.

I agree that an augmentation-specialized Archmage is a bit weak in lore, but it may be interesting to have a second class that has automatic access to Angolwen. There's nothing that says they couldn't, but just not much saying they would. So a distant, but still in the game, option 6.

[astreoth]

wow hidden in plain sight village that's pretty good actually.

yeah was calling the alchemist evil since they don't obey the approved magic only law that other alchemists do not really any worse than an archmage is. and could just have the golem be a full plate armour artifact you get from their alternative golemancy tree like the artifacts in the elementals addon. and not fitting in with the normal alchemists could have them start in anglowen not like mages have much use for gems.

also hate management is difficult and being a set cap resource hard to give them sustains that are more than on/of switches hopefully mana will help with that. and hurray for chaos.

Alright I could see the burnt alchemist being a one off thing from losing control of magic or alchemy experiment gone wrong, and I was wondering how this could happen enough to be a class but just answered my own question with the fact that alchemists work with all kinds of magically freaky stuff that could scar their hands like that and give some kind of magical taint that could prevent proper staff use.

okay forgot about mind control when arguing against ring of blood a normal cell wouldn't work long term but mind control I don't know enough about to argue. I've got nothing about why they'd stick with fists either maybe familiarity I dunno.

yeah lots of lore room for a formally trained arcane blade variant that could start in anglowen, and the yeeks do have the magical knowledge, acceptance, and psionic aptitude for a psychomancer class but we're here for unarmed.

edit:
okay I can see the slavers ripping magical knowledge from slaves for their own benefit but okay just had realization that brain R*** could screw with a casters head enough that they'd only have enough magical knowledge to augment their unarmed and may not remember that staffs exist so that works pretty good.

do have to wonder why the slavers wouldn't just sell the mages to zigur or something.