Thaloren specific Class?

[bricks]

I'm kind of mixed on the idea of a "druid" or wilder-mage class, nor do I think there is tremendous reason to make it Thaloren-specific, but I do really like the idea of weather-related talents, XLambda. It would really distinguish the class if you had sustained/timed effects that affected the entire level.

Thematically, I think a witch doctor/medicine man class would be more interesting than a D&D/World of Warcraft druid. You could have poisons, healing, weather effects, and totems (ala field effects; Yufra was playing with this idea a long time ago).

[XLambda]

I'm kind of mixed on the idea of a "druid" or wilder-mage class, nor do I think there is tremendous reason to make it Thaloren-specific, but I do really like the idea of weather-related talents, XLambda. It would really distinguish the class if you had sustained/timed effects that affected the entire level.

Yeah, that's the one thing that I think could really make this interesting. TBH I don't see why the class should be racial as well, it's probably going to be linked thematically to the Thalore anyway. (Much like mindslayers are thematically linked to yeeks.) I do however appreciate the plant-based theme, since it syncs so well with established in-universe wilder lore. I don't think it's too D&Dy (I don't play WoW, so I wouldn't know if it was like that ), but then again that's just me.

Thematically, I think a witch doctor/medicine man class would be more interesting than a D&D/World of Warcraft druid. You could have poisons, healing, weather effects, and totems (ala field effects; Yufra was playing with this idea a long time ago).

Hmm, I have mixed opinions on that.
IMO Poisons have been done to death by rogues et al., and to come up with new poison skills would mean that we have to avoid 1) making it too much like the defiler diseases 2) going too deep into oozemancer territory. Not sure we (or anyone) could pull this off.
Healing... hm, well, there's not a lot to heal in the game except yourself, and on the arcane side that is already well-covered by Celestial/Light. So we could come up with a wilder alternative to Celestial/Light that is not Fungus. Yeah, I can see that.
Weather effects I'm really interested in. You could do a ton of stuff in terms of synergy with (possibly) level-affecting weather effects.
Totems I haven't heard anything about, and don't really know what this idea is about. Care to elaborate? Sounds interesting.

[getter77]

The telegraphed thing to do with Weather would be akin to the Thunderstorm event in Old Forest...but deliberate and with more options---end result could function like Shadow Summoning for Doomed but with relevant participants. There'd be the issue with any Indoor Place as is often the bane of any manner of Druid depiction in other games, but I'm sure it can be fudged along somehow----everybody wants a Nature Mastery at the least comparable to the Ether booster and whatnot, deep down.

[HousePet]

My current design is looking like it uses staves as weapons and hitting things over the head with them, uses sustains that alter the weather/produce other naturey effect, can summon stationary plants and can create things like antimagic bushes, whirling vorticies, icy floor...
Playstyle should involve much more moving around than a typical caster, as your 'spells' are mostly sustains that hamper enemies while you whack them with your staff.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

I like that, and it ties in with using plants for things like tangling/tripping vines, growing brambles to slow/possibly damage enemies as they advance. I kind of want to AVOID the whole 'indoor being bad' thing, but I'd kinda like to see some sort of penalty for metal weapons. Living in harmony with nature and whatnot, would fit with bopping things on the head with a staff, or sling, or other 'natural' kinds of objects. I don't envision them as a caster, but minor natural aspects of nature (bringing groundwater to the surface, or something) is perfectly within the scope I had envisioned, and could work with some terrain-based ideas.

As for being Thalore specific, that was the result of conversation in the game's chat log about new racial specific classes. A nature wielder, for lack of a better term then druid, came to mind instantly for the thaloren. (Along with Shaloren highlanders, rapidly discarded) I've got no grudge giving the class to others, just suggested it because that was where the conversation started.

[erinye2000]

Here. I m really interested in this druid idea and I decided to put some thoughts into it. I am no coder tho... I didnt include any cooldowns on them for balance for it is really rough. But i would appreciate some afterthoughts.

Thanks!

Druid

Class Trees

Whenever a tree die out of damage, it increase your equilibrium by 50 and do you some damage based on your total life (more or less 75%)
1 Summon a Tree in a range of 2+1(level) They get hp based on your mindpower, they inherit your own resist. Sustained 30 equi.per tree. Last for 5/10/15/20/25 turn.
2 Increase the number of tree you can have at once by 1 per level. Passive (divide the % damage you get by a tree dying by the amount you have)
3 Choose target tree, it taunt to itself all mobs in a radius of 1+1(level)
4 Choose target tree, it put to sleep all mobs in a radius of 1/1/2/2/3 for 2/3/4/5/6 turns. Insomnia debuff.

Advanced Trees (high level locked)
1 Passive You can see everything close to your tree in a radius of 1/2/3/4/5 At level 3, you gains Stealth detection, at level 5, invisibility detection. But only through your trees.
2 Give a Melee attacks to your trees (to be balanced) his physical power increase with your mindpower, or perhaps without talent all tree have basic physical attacks, and this one could add some poison damage to their attacks.
3 Transform a target into one of your tree for 2 turns+1(level)
4 Put into a ivy prison a target mob. (work like stone wall, but summon ivy plants all around) for 3/4/5/6/7 turns. they all do nature poison damage to the target inside. They block line of sight for the target.

Tides
1 Water Bolt (work like fire spell, but do 50% physical, and 50% cold damage) become a beam at level 5.
2 Hailstorm (50% physical, 50% cold damage) in a long lasting AOE. At level 5, add a slow component. Last 2+1 turn/level.
3 Tsunami (work in a cone shaped, tidal wave effect) Range is 2+1(level) Like a slow moving beam. Knock back component 1/1/2/2/3 tile.
4 Passive or sustained. Give you and your trees a 5% physical resist/5 % cold resist per level. Give your trees a physical damage bonus, a cold damage bonus.

Sun
1 Sun burns. 1 target. Do x fire burning damage for 1 turn+1/level. Burning damage is cumulative. (So this spell have 2 debuff, itself (it apply the damage everyturns) and the normal burning damage. Work mostly like fire poison.
2 Photosynthesis Give all your trees a regen over time healing. Scaling to be determined, last 5 turns (like a regen infusion).
3 Solar burst. Aoe light+blind damage. (1/1/2/2/3 radius, blind for 2 turns + 1 per level)
4 Passive or sustained. Give you and your tree 5% light resist/5 % fire resist per level. Give your trees a light damage bonus and a fire damage bonus.

Growth
1 Bind. Pin a target to the ground for 2 + 1/level turns, And do some poison damage.
2 Rapid growth. Summon a tree (no hp) in a target square or radius (0/0/1/1/2) for 2 + 1 turn/level. It block path and sight.
3 Accelerate. Give all your tree a haste buff that last 2 + 1 turn/level.
4 Overgrowth. Give a +10% damage increase per level to all your tree, but at the cost of a 10% life loss every turn. Sustains. Instant cast. Long cooldown.

Tree-shape (high level locked)
1 Sustains. Transform you into a tree. You gain +armor(scale with mindpower), +Stun resist (15% per level) and a base life regen. You cannot move and gain a fire vulnerability 30 %. You cannot use staff abilities.
2 Plant mind, While in a tree form, you gain a big bonus to saving throws (scale with mindpower) and a 20%/level confusion immunity. You re considered blinded. You still see what your trees are seeing if you have this ability.
3 Give you a bonus to your physical capabilities while in a tree form. +hit, +% of damage. At level 5, all sustains or passive that affect your trees affect your tree-form.
4 Unroot. Give you and your trees for 2+1 turn/level the ablility to walk. During that time, they gain +5% resist all/level). Instant cast.

Generic
Nature Striding
1 Tree Step, Teleport yourself close to 1 of your tree. At level 5, it can be out of line of sight. Cooldown 14/12/10/8/6. Range scale with mindpower.
2 Give your trees armor and armor hardiness bonus (+10%/level). Mostly like the generic talent but for your tree (or your tree-from)
3 Give your trees +hit and +damage (combat training equivalent)
4 Place your mind on a tree, effectively using it as your body to activate wild gift power. Your body do nothing meanwhile. Sustained. If a tree die when you re in it, you take damage and get confused (no resist chance) for 5 turns.


Arcane Redemption (Give a new Category to the command staff spell, affecting fire, nature, ice, light and physical)

1 Staff Channel (like alchemist power) Make you able to use staff bypassing the magic requirement on level 1/2/3/4/5 items. Make you able to use staff even with anti-magic
2 Staff power (like alchemist, but doesnt affect you while in tree form). Add a +20% per level bonus damage associated with willpower.
3 Power of Nature, give yourself a +15/30/45/60/75% bonus to your mindpower out of your current spellpower. Make you able to use arcane powered items level 1/2/3/4/5. Even with anti-magic.
4 Destroy an arcane powered item to heal you. Stack with arcane level item and mindpower. At level 5, you gain a new category slot usable only with a rune. Using the rune put this talent on cooldown for the same amount of time.

[HousePet]

Okay, I've written up a plan.
WARNING SHORTHAND BELOW!

Class talents:

Land:
Tremors: sustain, Nearby enemies randomly stunned.
Boulder: active, boulder trap. Knockback and physical projectile
Cave In: active, similar to wyrmics quake, maybe dazed?
Earthquake: sustain, adds physical damage and possible knockback to Tremors. Increases equil and cancels when you fail a equil check (like how antimagic shield does)

Vulcanism:
Fissure: active, Dig Beam. Could also be used to create a line of tripping traps?
Volcano: active, already exists. Its a turret.
Lava burst: active, fireburn/bleed damage aoe.
Noxious Gasses: sustain, acid damage aura, random confusion.

Winds:
Zephyr: sustain, movement speed bonus/penalty.
Gone with the Wind: active, Run away/teleport?
Sandstorm: active, sand damage aoe over time.
Typhoon: sustain, adds projectile defence to Zephyr, random Gales. Increases equil and rechecks it each turn.

Weather:
Clear Skies: sustain, increased sight, light damage aura. Breaks lightning storm event.
Whistling Winds: sustain, disperses cloud effects. syn season
Rainfall: sustain, cold weakness, fire/acid resist, syn season.
Bolts from the Blue: sustain, random lightning daze.

Seas:
Pure Spring: sustain, regen and fire/acid resist.
Surf: active, Rush attack, water damage cone.
Waterspout: active, like tornado.
Whirlpool: sustain, adds a water damage aura to Pure Spring, increases and rechecks equil each turn.

Boreal:
Mistcloak: sustain, defence stealth and random los blocks. cold resist debuff.
Glaciate: active creates Icy Floor and does frozen ground damage.
Gale: active, knockback blast. syn seasons.
Aurora: sustain, +light radius, dark/nature damage maybe blindness too. Increases and recheck equil each turn.

Minerals:
Prism-Light: active, Alchemist gem -> beam of light damage, can blind
Strengthen Bones: passive, Increases physical power and saves
Crystal Healing: active, Cleanse magical effects + gem effect buff
Prism-Nature: active, Alchemist gem -> beam of nature damage, can dispel

Woodland:
Poison Ivy: summon immobile plants with a poison attack
Sleeping Poppies: summon immobile plants with a sleep attack
Hailing Oak: summon an immobile tree that does physical damage.
Thorns: sustain, adds physical damage when hit to your plants and yourself when thorny skinned.

Jungle:
Tanglevines: summon immobile plants that use grapples
Hedge: summon a wall of trees
Pitcherplant: summon immobile corrosive plants
Fertilise: sustain, kills have a chance of spawning random plants.

extra random plants for fertilise:
Beautiful Rose: plant restores equilibrium
Healing Herbs: plant heals nearby living creatures.
Stench Lily: repels creatures.

Generic talents:

Seasons:
Like Chants/Hymns.
Spring: + healmod and lightning damage %
Summer: + fire/light damage %
Autumn: + nature/acid damage %
Winter: + cold/dark damage %

Gaia's Embrace:
Weapons of the Woods: passive, +accuracy and nature damage from non metal weapons.
Armour of the Woods: passive, +armour and hardiness from non metal armour.
Weathered: passive, physical/fire/cold/lightning/acid/nature resistance.
Avatar of Nature: active, buffs based on season. Maybe add seasonal damage to attacks?

Staff Combat
Staff Mastery: Increases physical power with staves and adds extra physical damage based on physical power.
Blunt Thrust:
Defensive Posture: scales with dex
Staffwhirl: Deathdance+

Herbalism
Remedy: passive, poison/disease resist
Healing Salve: active, Mostly curative with some healing.
Quickness Potion: active, Increases agility buff
Frenzy Potion: active, Increases aggression buff

plus Call of the Wild, Harmony (locked), Fungus (locked).

I may have searched through several threads to get ideas...

[HousePet]

So this is no good then?

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

While I do like the concept of something that actually uses staves for melee combat, I don't like giving them the staff combat tree, as that goes down a magic route I don't want them walking.

I'm iffy on the concept of seasons, I think we might be walking into too much of the 'outdoor only' class, that dies from nature withdrawal, as soon as they have to go shopping. But It's an interesting concept. If celestials can sing the glorys of light and dark, singinng about nature is certainly a valid concept.

I LIKE the 'nonmetal' concept tree you came up with, but it needs accuracy, and should probably replace the normal armor training tree. If you use that as a tree, I'm envisioning using ONLY it's weapon talent, and ONLY it's armor talent; using that AND the existing weapon/armor traiing could get overpowered. Staff combat kinda rendered moot over the 'bonus with nonmetal weapons' skill, but other then lacking in accuracy, I like it. (Though the sustain with seasonal buffs is iffy, see above paragraph) Weathered looks nice, save for physical resist. I'd peel it out.

I'm not really fond of some of the more active skills, I think you're wandering too deeply into spellcaster territory there, Especially with the earth and vulcanism trees. (How often does a nature mage call forth a mighty volcano? Especially given how destructive that could be to a natural environment.) I kinda like some of what's in the winds tree though. Barring there direct attack spell, most of that looks good, only concern on the direct spell is keeping it 'support', and not 'offense'. But it works rather nicely.

I also see a LOT of sustains, and that could start to get out of hand in terms of balance and resource management. You also seem to have a LOT of trees, and it would spread characters out a fair bit, much as archmage can. Seems you'd be to gimped focusing on a few, but not have enough to be strong if you spread out.

I also think the two plant trees are a bit too summony, I was envisioning something more like this:

Growth (in no particular order)

- Tangling vines (I envisioned a sustain, that caused 'active movement' in nearby plants, creating unstable footing for all save you, slowing there movement speed, with a chance for a one turn fail to move perhaps? (Tripping, but not enough to result in stun or shutdown talents.) Maybe an increased chance of trip at higher talent levels?
- Thorns (Active) Causes the ground (natural plants, fungus, mold, mushrooms, etc, so as to cover even things inside) plantlife to sprout sharp barbs and thorns, causing damage to anything walking through the field. Duration and size of field increases with talent level and primary stat.
- Bloom (Active) Causes an accelerated growth of plants in an area, providing a 'wall' to block corridors/hide you. Possibly some sort of emanation of sores, poisoning/nature damage nearby creatures. Increased talent level could increase poison duration?
- Green thumb (Passive) Increases damage/duration of plant related talents, perhaps?

I rather like most of the boreal stuff, working with the natural water in nature is nice, and even underground, there is some water, so it wouldn't scream 'illogical' when used at interior area. Even gale seems more support oriented compared to active magical combat.

[HousePet]

Derp, two things I wasn't clear about:
Weapons of the Woods is accuracy and damage.
Staff Combat: I've written a pure technical version of staff combat in my Alchemist+ mod, which I intended for this class. (Alchemist gets the more magical components)

Not sure about why staff use is rendered moot by 'no metal weapons', staves were made of wood/bone last I checked.

I totally agree that there are too many actives. Hopefully that can be dealt with.
On the other hand, its always going to be a bit of a hybrid, not sure if crushing anything spellcasty will leave much else.
Perhaps a good middle ground would be to have a debuff on every attack talent, and make any damaging effects, damage over time. That would give you more flexibility to move around instead of casting repeatedly, and makes it harder to nuke.

There are lots of sustains, I'm aiming for sustains over normal spellcasting.
Resource management will be more along the lines of which sustains are more useful at the moment. As you would only be able to use one season and one weather at a time. And others like Earthquake would require Tremors to be active and slowly increases your equilibrium.

I make no apologies for giving too many options.

Your Growth talents are nice.

I will update my previous post with more details/changes.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

Not sure about why staff use is rendered moot by 'no metal weapons', staves were made of wood/bone last I checked.

If you have damage (and accuracy) bonuses for non-metal weapons, and then damage and accuracy bonuses from staff combat talent, you would double-cover. You'd be receiving damage bonuses twice, and that could get a bit out of hand. Ditto for Armor training and the non-metal armor skill. If you invested in both, you'd end up with double coverage, and getting a huge 120% increase in armor hardiness, plus whatever you had from armor itself and other things and all the other stuff that piles up, could get out of hand VERY fast. If we go this route, we probably need to block off the standard armor/weapon training tree. (As in, they should not be able to get the tree, even through last hope, or are incapable of learning the standard training skills in the tree. (No reason to deny them thick skin, just have to stop the double-coverage)

Also, I didn't notice you'd redesigned stave combat. I was concerned over them getting channel staff, which they shoudn't. Staves make sense, not too far from stave, to 'shaleilegh' or club. (Still no clue on how to spell that.)

Few other talents I came up with, but can't fit into any specific tree

Nameless leaf talent - Stir up a cloud of gusting leaves, which obscure vision for targets within it. (Like an area blind, centered on the area, rather then on the target.)

Poorly named 'vine grab' talent - Cause vines to grow up out of the ground and wrap themselves about a target, pinning them. Possibly add a radius at higher talent levels. Perhaps allow the thorns talent to cause extra damage to foes pinned by this talent? (Thorns from the vines themselves wrapped around them would be a bit more painful)

I also considered an option for solving the 'there are no plants indoor' problem. Perhaps they cause staves or other wooden weapons they wield to 'strengthen' and become living wood, which blooms, flowers, etc. Could potentially add use to antimagic staves, and if there staves are growing leaves, flowers, moss, branches, etc, this could open up whole new doors for them. In the iffy caster department, creating branches and shards of wood to fire from there living staff could be an option, though I want to stay away from the whole spell-nuking thing. In the better department, thorns and barbs growing along a staff to temporarily buff it's melee damage could be a useful talent, as an active. Using the plants on it to generate other plant related abilities could function. Perhaps let the 'growth staves' for lack of a better term, work like reshaping a weapon would? (Not that I'm hugely familiar with that.) Something where they can enact a talent to improve the weapon and bring some life back into it. Thereafter, certain effects are added based off talent level, and allow the 'living' staff to be used differently for there talents.

Also, your minerals tree is attempting to use alchemist gems they have no method of acquiring. And stone alchemy, being mana, doesn't really work there. Perhaps have them be required to draw on a mindstar for them? Or perhaps, make some 'natural' gems by tearing apart a mindstar to get the resource? Dunno. Just thoughts.

[HousePet]

Making the non-metal weapons bonus not stack with Combat Accuracy would be easy enough.
I'm pretty sure that all heavy and massive armours (barring one artifact flavour) are metal, and Armour Training only applies to heavy and massive armours, so they shouldn't clash. If they did, making it not stack is easy.

I don't think its worth bothering with indoors vs outdoors. Plants show up in underground locations already.

Gems are natural, alchemists just pervert nature to make them explode. So, there would be a copy of the create alchemist gems talent.

I guess they should get Antimagic as well.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

I guess they should get Antimagic as well.

Only if it's an option. Jut because they are closely in touch and tied to nature does not automatically force them into a Ziguristic hate of magic. Giving them the tree unlocked, (but not invested in) by default, would be good enough.

Possible 'earthy' things:

Unnamed detection talent 1 - Feeling tremors/vibrations in the dirt of the ground allows them to trace and detect creatures when used. (Think Old Indian trick of listening for hoofbeats)

....Ok, not 'things', I had one.

[HousePet]

It seems the antimagic category is completely seperate from being a Zigur fanatic.

[rexorcorum]

Yes, it appears so - I have tested it with daftigod's Barbarian class (has AM on birth) and you can use both arcane items and the AM talent (and have managed to get the Celestial/Light tree) as long as you don't do the Zigur initiation.