Necromantic Melee Class

[Planetus]

I like the idea of a symbiotic summons, but I'd say make it temporary rather than permanent and the one kind of symbiotic summons that I see as most reasonable for this class is an undead steed. Mount your undead steed and gain a substantial bonus to movement speed, physical power, and resist to things like pin, confusion, and slow. The steed has it's own HP, which attacks have a certain %chance to hit, and at higher levels it can even attack on it's own (with hooves). It cannot be equipped with anything, costs a lot of souls to summon/maintain, and will disappear when slain, with a long cooldown.

I have to agree with Sirrocco that abandoning souls would be ridiculous, though I could see using stamina, especially if we grant all 2-hander trees. Stamina for spells would be a stretch, but I don't think completely impossible if we portray the spells as innate powers of the class.

[PureQuestion]

Having access to a more traditional resource like stamina or mana would probably be necessary for supporting the souls.

[Sirrocco]

I agree with the wanting a secondary resource, but why stamina? What's wrong with Darkness? It gives us some interesting stuff to mine for fluff (These effectively become the Paladins of the Night, and Eastern Priests of the Dead). It also gives us a resource behavior that's a little different and a little more interesting than the most commonly used resource in the game. Sure, if you use stamina you can just pile on the stamina trees... but that's sort of my point. Doing that leeches some of the uniqueness from the class.

[Planetus]

If we use darkness, one idea is that whatever necrotic-aura-equivalent we use (and I definitely think there should be one) could generate negative energy from every enemy in the aura. Maybe it even scales with level and/or proximity of the target. Especially if we see it as being a way to deal with mobs without using souls, fueling it with the presence of mobs makes some sense. Feed of the presence of your enemies while they're alive, and their souls when they're dead.

As for the idea of working utility spells like phase door into the class, I'd rather see a class-appropriate skill. One idea I had was to make a hellfire tree (if we use fire, it can be altered otherwise), where the character opens a portal through hell to a location, releasing a blast of hellfire on either side of the portal. Hellfire, of course, wouldn't hurt the character, and might actually heal him. And maybe, if you actually target an enemy with the talent, it has a chance to pull that character through the portal into hell, killing it instantly. If so, you appear where it was. If not, you appear next to it.

[PureQuestion]

One idea I had was to make a hellfire tree (if we use fire, it can be altered otherwise), where the character opens a portal through hell to a location, releasing a blast of hellfire on either side of the portal. Hellfire, of course, wouldn't hurt the character, and might actually heal him.

This is a tree and talent I have planned for Doombringer.

Also, there is no Hell in ToME, just the Fearscape, which is quite distinct.

[Planetus]

That's a good point on limiting this class's names and possibly powers. It may also restrict the elemental reasoning for this class. Fire is only related to death through hell in modern culture. Cold is related to death due to the loss of heat of a body, and the coldness of deep ground, which means it's still reasonable for Maj'Eyal.

What about other elements?
Earth: maybe, but that's basically physical
Nature: I don't think so
Poison: seems to be related to nature
Lightning: I see no connection here
Time: nah, not really
Light: if anything, the reverse, though that's mainly from our society
Darkness: Prime
Gravity: Not really
Slime: anti-magic undead? Not likely
Blight: more related to the fearscape and corruption of nature than death
Disease: so far primarily associated with blight, though I'm not sure what element the ghoul's retch damage is

So, cold, darkness, and possibly disease abilities would make sense for this class. And, of course, physical.

[Grillkick]

Tbh, we don't know if there's a Hell in TomE- what happens after a character's final death hasn't been covered as far as I know. Besides, Hellfire just sounds badass ^^

[Sirrocco]

Clarification re: hell - There may or may not be an afterlife involving torment. Regardless, there is no afterlife-related place from which one can call fire with which to harm ones foes. Afterlife or lack thereof is a Canon Area of Doubt and Uncertainty, and not fit to be channeled for power.

I think you could get to disease via gangrene, and possibly some sort of undead specialization (the idea of a disease that tends to produce undead is reasonable. Therefore the idea of disease-themed undead is reasonable). On the other side, there hasn't been a particularly *strong* disease-to-undead connection as yet, and we probably shouldn't make one. Maybe a power or two, but no more than that. Disease is a lot more the sort of thing you'd see out of the equilibrium/souls guy.

[PureQuestion]

There is no religion in ToME, and no known afterlife.

On elements, however, Blight is highly tied to death. Corruptors and Necromancers both deal in death. The necromancer talent that detonates minion does blight damage, and many undead deal blight damage, especially Ghouls.

[jotwebe]

Yeah, blight is about rotting and disease. Temporal could actually work, too, if you see it as entropy and aging. Otherwise the classics darkness (dark means sleep means death) and cold (corpses are cold, the quick are warm).

[Planetus]

Officially, blight is the corruption of the elements of this world, and thus has nothing to do with necromancy unless the Fearscape IS hell. I think blight and disease need some distinction.

[PureQuestion]

Blight is the opposite of nature. The dead and rotting deal in blight.

[Sirrocco]

...and death and rotting are, in their own ways, fundamentally natural - as is disease, or at least some diseases. I wouldn't expect to see it out of a standard wilder, but an equilibrium/souls wilder with a strong death and decomposition as part of the cycle of life theme?

[PureQuestion]

The undead are a violation of nature because they defy death.

[Sirrocco]

So this guy plays for both teams. They are already planning an equilibrium/magic type, right?

anyway, I don't necessarily see the equilibrium/souls guy as explicitly doing the undead thing as much - more that he's using necromantic powers alongside natural powers. He won't be raising zombies any time soon if that's what you're thinking... more of a death-aspected shamanic type.