I'd prefer the on-hit spell casting to be changed in the following ways. First; learn, improve, and use them like poisons. Maintain two at any time, learn a new one at every talent level. Also, the effects could stand to be slightly varied - different fields of effect (ball, single-target w/ high damage are other options), status effects (Daze for lightning?), and something geared more towards utility than offense. "Enchant" is fine but you could just as easily call them Runes. That opens up room for three new talents. If you are interested in some more ideas in that line of thought, I have a number of ideas for a "Runewarden" class that could be used.
One general improvement to the class would be to reevaluate the stat point use. I like how edge's Temporal Wardens and Brawlers have a few different stats they can choose to emphasize, and it has a noticeable impact on the development of the player character. Arcane Blades need pretty much everything but Cunning (and they were even given Dirty Fighting as a locked tree); building "magic heavy" (more direct spellcasting), "dexterity heavy" (more spell-on-melee focused, dual wielding?), "strength heavy" (berserker + magic options), and "willpower heavy" (support for both lots of active technique and spell usage) all strike me as potential development paths. Right now there is some crossover, but equipment restrictions, limited mana, and odd dexterity interactions make it hard to choose one focus.
A look at the Arcane Blade in B37
Moderator: Moderator
Re: A look at the Arcane Blade in B37
Sorry about all the parentheses (sometimes I like to clarify things).
Re: A look at the Arcane Blade in B37
The following post is a summary of a brainstorming session with several people from last night on the #tome IRC channel. (Thanks to Edge2045, Koralin, SomeGirl, Rabicani and a few others who talked briefly). I'm going to be coding up various parts of this proposal as time allows over the coming weeks, although I'm going to continue to be open to suggestions and comments.
One of the big complaints everyone had was the class, once setup didn't have any interesting choices. Bump attack, bump attack. However people like sustains. So we decided rather than relying on a melee combat tree, a melee utility tree, why not spread everything through out all of a set of unique Arcane blade trees.
So we thought instead of the old elemental trees (air, fire, stone), why not make them Arcane Blade specific, stamina and mana using elemental trees. We settled on Air, Earth, Fire and Water. Another suggestion I liked was to provide access to the corresponding Archmage trees as initially closed, low skill multiplier (0.7 or so) trees. As points are put into the corresponding Arcane blade element tree, the multiplier would increase up to a maximum of 1.3 at 20 skill points (0.03 per point). This was a nice 9 trees to start with (4 open new Arcane-element trees, 4 closed old Fire, Air, Water, Earth Trees, and an open reworked magical-combat tree). This prevents taking all the spell casting effects at high effect, but you might be able to make one viable after investing in the Arcane blade trees themselves.
We liked the idea of keeping the Arcane Combat proc, but separated it from the older flame, lightning, earthen missile spells. The chance of the proc is determined by the Arcane Combat talent, but the proc is determined by what elemental "stance" the Arcane Blade is in.
The elemental "stance" is a sustain, which can only be turned on with the tier 1 ability from each of the four new elemental trees. The tier 1 itself is a melee strike, but as a side effect switches the current stance to the aligned element (Air, Earth, Fire, Water). The Arcane Combat proc is then either a Chain of Lightning, a Ball of Physical, a Cone of Fire, or a Beam of Water. The damage is determined by spell power and the total number of talent points in the corresponding Elemental Tree, something like +10% extra damage per point, with a low damage starting point. The working idea is to have it only trigger on main hand weapon strikes, not off-hand, shield bashes, or gloves. It would cost mana each time it is trigger, and be a stamina sustain. The idea of putting effects directly in the triggers was considered (like stun or daze), but because such effects could easily be constantly reapplied every turn, we decided to try leaving it out. Flameshock was removed from the options originally because constantly spamming stuns was considered far too strong.
The Stances themselves also provide buffs, whose effects can be improved by the new tier 2 in the Magical Combat tree, Arcane Stance, a passive.
The tier 3 in the Magical Combat tree would be similar to the old Arcane Dexterity, but would convert either Strength or Dexterity to Spell power, whichever is higher. It would be a passive called Arcane Prowress.
The tier 4 is a reworked Arcane Destruction. This would be a mana sustain. It converts the base damage of the weapons you are wielding to the associated element of the stance. Your physical 2 handed sword is now fire damage in the fire stance. It would also increase that elemental damage by a % as well as providing some elemental penetration to that element.
So the trees would be as follows:
["spell/air"]={false, -0.3},
["spell/earth"]={false, -0.3},
["spell/fire"]={false,-0.3},
["spell/water"]={false,-0.3},
["spell/conveyance"]={true, 0.2},
["technique/combat-training"]={true, 0.2},
["cunning/survival"]={false, -0.1},
["technique/arcane-air"]={true, 0},
["technique/arcane-earth"]={true, 0},
["technique/arcane-fire"]={true, 0},
["technique/arcane-water"]={true, 0},
["technique/magical-combat"]={true, 0},
["technique/arcane-veteran"]={true,0},
We dropped the Aegis tree, as that was starting to overlap with the defensive talents in the trees themselves. The class defenses now focus more around heal/regen, armor mitigation, enemy debuffing, and the reworked Earthen Barrier effect, rather than straight up shield runes.
Magical-combat tree, Magic requirement
Tier 1: Arcane Combat: Stamina sustain: % chance based on Dexterity to trigger damage proc, costing mana.
Tier 2: Arcane Stances: Passive: +100/200/300/400/500% effectiveness of Arcane Stances.
Tier 3: Arcane Prowess: Passive: Convert 10/20/30/40/50% of either Strength or Dexterity to spell power, whichever is higher.
Tier 4: Arcane Destruction: Mana Sustain: Convert weapon damage to element based on stance. 2/4/6/8/10% element damage increase. 10/20/30/40/50 element damage penetration.
Arcane-Air tree, Str requirement
Stance is +1 Accuracy per 10 spellpower/+1 Lightning damage on melee hit per 10 spellpower
Tier 1: Air Strike: Stamina Activate,8 turn cooldown, Switches to Air Stance: Melee attack with both weapons, % bonus damage, bonus APR, Silence for 3/4/5/6/7/8 turns. At 3 points Silence effect is a ball of radius 0/0/3/4/5. At 5 points can alternatively activate for ball effect at range 5 (no damage). Silence determined by Phys Power.
Tier 2: Tornado Strike: Stamina Activate, 10 turn cooldown: Make two full attacks (i.e. 2 attacks with main hand, 2 attacks with off hand if present), ignoring defense and armor.
Tier 3: Form of Air: Mana Activate, 30 turn cooldown: Evasion % chance based on spellpower, 2/4/6/8/10 turn duration. Provides levitation.
Tier 4: Whirlwind Teleport: Mana Activate, 12 turn cooldown: Targeted teleport within LOS at range 6/7/8/9/10, followed by a full attack (both main and offhand) against all now adjacent enemies (if any).
Arcane-Earth tree, Str requirement
Stance is +1 Armor per 10 spellpower/+0.2 resist all per 10 spellpower
Tier 1: Earth Strike: Stamina Activate, 8 turn cooldown, Switches to Earth Stance: Melee attack with mainland and shield bash (if present). % bonus damage, Pinning for 3/4/5/6/7/8 turns. At 3 points Pinning effect is a ball of radius 0/0/3/4/5. At 5 points can alternatively activate for ball effect at range 5 (no damage). Pinning determined by Phys Power.
Tier 2: Sandblast: Stamina Activate, 10 turn cooldown: Make a main hand and shield bash (if present) against melee target, dealing bonus % physical damage. Seperately a blinding effect of beam length 3 is activated in the direction of the target, blinding for 1/2/3/4/5 turns. Blinding is determined by Phys power.
Tier 3: Earthen Barrier: Mana Sustain, 30 turn cooldown: Provides a shield hp pool based on spellpower which absorbs 50% of incoming damage. The shield regenerates % of its hp based on spell power each turn. If shield drops to 0 hit points, it deactivates.
Tier 4: Rolling Earth: Mana Activate, 20 turn cooldown: Cone AoE damage of radius 3/4/5/6/7, pull towards caster and stun effect. Effects based on Spell power.
Arcane-Water tree, Str requirement
Stance is +1% Healing Mod per 10 spellpower/+0.1 regen per 10 spellpower
Tier 1: Water Strike: Stamina Activate, 8 turn cooldown, Switches to Water Stance: Swaps weapon (equivalent to pressing x) and does a melee attack with the new weapon(s), with bonus % damage. Confuses the target for 3/4/5/6/7/8 turns. At 3 points Confusion effect is a ball of radius 0/0/3/4/5. At 5 points can alternatively activate for ball effect at range 5 (no damage). Confusion application determined by Phys Power. It also applies a 1 turn buff allowing you to swap weapons with no turn (energy) cost, allowing you to switch back weapons the next turn if you desire.
Tier 2: Healing Water: Mana Activate, 16 turn cooldown: Heal self based on spellpower.
Tier 3: Tidal Rush: Stamina Activate, 10 turn cooldown: Rush to target. Ignore intervening enemies, knocking them back if possible, or just passing through if not. Attack at the final target with all weapons. Knockback based on Phys Power.
Tier 4: Drain Water of Life: Mana Activate, 16 turn cooldown: Strike at target with all weapons. Heal back % of damage based on spellpower. Against non-living targets just does damage.
Arcane-Fire tree, Str requirement
Stance is +1 Phys power per 10 spellpower/ +0.25 Phys crit per 10 spellpower
Tier 1: Fire Strike: Stamina Activate, 8 turn cooldown, Switches to Fire Stance: Attack with Main-hand weapon, dealing bonus % damage. Also dispels 1/2/2/3/3 beneficial effects on the target. At 3 points Dispel effect is a ball of radius 0/0/3/4/5. At 5 points can alternatively activate for ball effect at range 5 (no damage). Dispel success determined by Phys Power.
Tier 2: Inferno Cleave: Stamina Activate, 10 turn cooldown: Attack with Main-hand weapon against up to 3 adjacent enemies. It lights up the area in a radius 1 ball. It deals bonus fire damage based on the weapon's STR mod and spellpower. At level 3 it Blinds for 3 turns. Effects based on Phys power.
Tier 3: Aura of Fire: Mana Sustain, 30 turn cooldown: Each turn, deal damage to all enemies in a radius of 1. Provides % cold/fire resistance and makes user immune to Iceblock effects. Damage based on spell power.
Tier 4: Shield of Fire: Mana Sustain, 30 turn cooldown: X% of all damage (melee, ranged, or spell) dealt to the character is instantly also dealt to the attacker in the form of fire damage. % is based on spellpower.
The last tree would be a generic point tree.
Arcane-Veteran tree, Magic requirement
Tier 1: Veteran Blade: Passive: Gain 0.5/1.0/1.5/2.0/2.5 stamina per attack with a main hand weapon.
Tier 2: Arcane Armor: Mana Sustain: -% fatigue and +% bonus armor of the main body piece of armor. (I.e. 100% bonus of the 16 armor of Voratun plate would be an extra 16 armor). % based on spellpower.
Tier 3: Arcane Feed: Stamina Sustain: 0.1/0.2/0.3/0.4/0.5 mana regen per turn.
Tier 4: Master Blade: Stamina and Mana Sustain: +15/30/45/60/75 disarm resistance. Also, when attacked by a ranged projectile (arrow/bolt), roll Accuracy vs attacker's Accuracy. If successful, negate the attack. At level 3 affects reflectable spells (roll Accuracy vs Spell power). At level 5, reflects reflectable spells back at the caster.
One of the big complaints everyone had was the class, once setup didn't have any interesting choices. Bump attack, bump attack. However people like sustains. So we decided rather than relying on a melee combat tree, a melee utility tree, why not spread everything through out all of a set of unique Arcane blade trees.
So we thought instead of the old elemental trees (air, fire, stone), why not make them Arcane Blade specific, stamina and mana using elemental trees. We settled on Air, Earth, Fire and Water. Another suggestion I liked was to provide access to the corresponding Archmage trees as initially closed, low skill multiplier (0.7 or so) trees. As points are put into the corresponding Arcane blade element tree, the multiplier would increase up to a maximum of 1.3 at 20 skill points (0.03 per point). This was a nice 9 trees to start with (4 open new Arcane-element trees, 4 closed old Fire, Air, Water, Earth Trees, and an open reworked magical-combat tree). This prevents taking all the spell casting effects at high effect, but you might be able to make one viable after investing in the Arcane blade trees themselves.
We liked the idea of keeping the Arcane Combat proc, but separated it from the older flame, lightning, earthen missile spells. The chance of the proc is determined by the Arcane Combat talent, but the proc is determined by what elemental "stance" the Arcane Blade is in.
The elemental "stance" is a sustain, which can only be turned on with the tier 1 ability from each of the four new elemental trees. The tier 1 itself is a melee strike, but as a side effect switches the current stance to the aligned element (Air, Earth, Fire, Water). The Arcane Combat proc is then either a Chain of Lightning, a Ball of Physical, a Cone of Fire, or a Beam of Water. The damage is determined by spell power and the total number of talent points in the corresponding Elemental Tree, something like +10% extra damage per point, with a low damage starting point. The working idea is to have it only trigger on main hand weapon strikes, not off-hand, shield bashes, or gloves. It would cost mana each time it is trigger, and be a stamina sustain. The idea of putting effects directly in the triggers was considered (like stun or daze), but because such effects could easily be constantly reapplied every turn, we decided to try leaving it out. Flameshock was removed from the options originally because constantly spamming stuns was considered far too strong.
The Stances themselves also provide buffs, whose effects can be improved by the new tier 2 in the Magical Combat tree, Arcane Stance, a passive.
The tier 3 in the Magical Combat tree would be similar to the old Arcane Dexterity, but would convert either Strength or Dexterity to Spell power, whichever is higher. It would be a passive called Arcane Prowress.
The tier 4 is a reworked Arcane Destruction. This would be a mana sustain. It converts the base damage of the weapons you are wielding to the associated element of the stance. Your physical 2 handed sword is now fire damage in the fire stance. It would also increase that elemental damage by a % as well as providing some elemental penetration to that element.
So the trees would be as follows:
["spell/air"]={false, -0.3},
["spell/earth"]={false, -0.3},
["spell/fire"]={false,-0.3},
["spell/water"]={false,-0.3},
["spell/conveyance"]={true, 0.2},
["technique/combat-training"]={true, 0.2},
["cunning/survival"]={false, -0.1},
["technique/arcane-air"]={true, 0},
["technique/arcane-earth"]={true, 0},
["technique/arcane-fire"]={true, 0},
["technique/arcane-water"]={true, 0},
["technique/magical-combat"]={true, 0},
["technique/arcane-veteran"]={true,0},
We dropped the Aegis tree, as that was starting to overlap with the defensive talents in the trees themselves. The class defenses now focus more around heal/regen, armor mitigation, enemy debuffing, and the reworked Earthen Barrier effect, rather than straight up shield runes.
Magical-combat tree, Magic requirement
Tier 1: Arcane Combat: Stamina sustain: % chance based on Dexterity to trigger damage proc, costing mana.
Tier 2: Arcane Stances: Passive: +100/200/300/400/500% effectiveness of Arcane Stances.
Tier 3: Arcane Prowess: Passive: Convert 10/20/30/40/50% of either Strength or Dexterity to spell power, whichever is higher.
Tier 4: Arcane Destruction: Mana Sustain: Convert weapon damage to element based on stance. 2/4/6/8/10% element damage increase. 10/20/30/40/50 element damage penetration.
Arcane-Air tree, Str requirement
Stance is +1 Accuracy per 10 spellpower/+1 Lightning damage on melee hit per 10 spellpower
Tier 1: Air Strike: Stamina Activate,8 turn cooldown, Switches to Air Stance: Melee attack with both weapons, % bonus damage, bonus APR, Silence for 3/4/5/6/7/8 turns. At 3 points Silence effect is a ball of radius 0/0/3/4/5. At 5 points can alternatively activate for ball effect at range 5 (no damage). Silence determined by Phys Power.
Tier 2: Tornado Strike: Stamina Activate, 10 turn cooldown: Make two full attacks (i.e. 2 attacks with main hand, 2 attacks with off hand if present), ignoring defense and armor.
Tier 3: Form of Air: Mana Activate, 30 turn cooldown: Evasion % chance based on spellpower, 2/4/6/8/10 turn duration. Provides levitation.
Tier 4: Whirlwind Teleport: Mana Activate, 12 turn cooldown: Targeted teleport within LOS at range 6/7/8/9/10, followed by a full attack (both main and offhand) against all now adjacent enemies (if any).
Arcane-Earth tree, Str requirement
Stance is +1 Armor per 10 spellpower/+0.2 resist all per 10 spellpower
Tier 1: Earth Strike: Stamina Activate, 8 turn cooldown, Switches to Earth Stance: Melee attack with mainland and shield bash (if present). % bonus damage, Pinning for 3/4/5/6/7/8 turns. At 3 points Pinning effect is a ball of radius 0/0/3/4/5. At 5 points can alternatively activate for ball effect at range 5 (no damage). Pinning determined by Phys Power.
Tier 2: Sandblast: Stamina Activate, 10 turn cooldown: Make a main hand and shield bash (if present) against melee target, dealing bonus % physical damage. Seperately a blinding effect of beam length 3 is activated in the direction of the target, blinding for 1/2/3/4/5 turns. Blinding is determined by Phys power.
Tier 3: Earthen Barrier: Mana Sustain, 30 turn cooldown: Provides a shield hp pool based on spellpower which absorbs 50% of incoming damage. The shield regenerates % of its hp based on spell power each turn. If shield drops to 0 hit points, it deactivates.
Tier 4: Rolling Earth: Mana Activate, 20 turn cooldown: Cone AoE damage of radius 3/4/5/6/7, pull towards caster and stun effect. Effects based on Spell power.
Arcane-Water tree, Str requirement
Stance is +1% Healing Mod per 10 spellpower/+0.1 regen per 10 spellpower
Tier 1: Water Strike: Stamina Activate, 8 turn cooldown, Switches to Water Stance: Swaps weapon (equivalent to pressing x) and does a melee attack with the new weapon(s), with bonus % damage. Confuses the target for 3/4/5/6/7/8 turns. At 3 points Confusion effect is a ball of radius 0/0/3/4/5. At 5 points can alternatively activate for ball effect at range 5 (no damage). Confusion application determined by Phys Power. It also applies a 1 turn buff allowing you to swap weapons with no turn (energy) cost, allowing you to switch back weapons the next turn if you desire.
Tier 2: Healing Water: Mana Activate, 16 turn cooldown: Heal self based on spellpower.
Tier 3: Tidal Rush: Stamina Activate, 10 turn cooldown: Rush to target. Ignore intervening enemies, knocking them back if possible, or just passing through if not. Attack at the final target with all weapons. Knockback based on Phys Power.
Tier 4: Drain Water of Life: Mana Activate, 16 turn cooldown: Strike at target with all weapons. Heal back % of damage based on spellpower. Against non-living targets just does damage.
Arcane-Fire tree, Str requirement
Stance is +1 Phys power per 10 spellpower/ +0.25 Phys crit per 10 spellpower
Tier 1: Fire Strike: Stamina Activate, 8 turn cooldown, Switches to Fire Stance: Attack with Main-hand weapon, dealing bonus % damage. Also dispels 1/2/2/3/3 beneficial effects on the target. At 3 points Dispel effect is a ball of radius 0/0/3/4/5. At 5 points can alternatively activate for ball effect at range 5 (no damage). Dispel success determined by Phys Power.
Tier 2: Inferno Cleave: Stamina Activate, 10 turn cooldown: Attack with Main-hand weapon against up to 3 adjacent enemies. It lights up the area in a radius 1 ball. It deals bonus fire damage based on the weapon's STR mod and spellpower. At level 3 it Blinds for 3 turns. Effects based on Phys power.
Tier 3: Aura of Fire: Mana Sustain, 30 turn cooldown: Each turn, deal damage to all enemies in a radius of 1. Provides % cold/fire resistance and makes user immune to Iceblock effects. Damage based on spell power.
Tier 4: Shield of Fire: Mana Sustain, 30 turn cooldown: X% of all damage (melee, ranged, or spell) dealt to the character is instantly also dealt to the attacker in the form of fire damage. % is based on spellpower.
The last tree would be a generic point tree.
Arcane-Veteran tree, Magic requirement
Tier 1: Veteran Blade: Passive: Gain 0.5/1.0/1.5/2.0/2.5 stamina per attack with a main hand weapon.
Tier 2: Arcane Armor: Mana Sustain: -% fatigue and +% bonus armor of the main body piece of armor. (I.e. 100% bonus of the 16 armor of Voratun plate would be an extra 16 armor). % based on spellpower.
Tier 3: Arcane Feed: Stamina Sustain: 0.1/0.2/0.3/0.4/0.5 mana regen per turn.
Tier 4: Master Blade: Stamina and Mana Sustain: +15/30/45/60/75 disarm resistance. Also, when attacked by a ranged projectile (arrow/bolt), roll Accuracy vs attacker's Accuracy. If successful, negate the attack. At level 3 affects reflectable spells (roll Accuracy vs Spell power). At level 5, reflects reflectable spells back at the caster.
Re: A look at the Arcane Blade in B37
Wow, forget anything I said. That sounds like a lot of fun.
Sorry about all the parentheses (sometimes I like to clarify things).
Re: A look at the Arcane Blade in B37
The current concepts I'm playing around with move the choice from out of the Arcane Combat to the "elemental stance". Although I could just as easily base the effectiveness off Arcane Combat itself rather than the investment in the elemental trees. I'm still weary of constantly reapplied effects, like Daze, every strike.bricks wrote:I'd prefer the on-hit spell casting to be changed in the following ways. First; learn, improve, and use them like poisons. Maintain two at any time, learn a new one at every talent level. Also, the effects could stand to be slightly varied - different fields of effect (ball, single-target w/ high damage are other options), status effects (Daze for lightning?), and something geared more towards utility than offense.
We tried to make Strength and Dex equally attractive by making Arcane Dexterity apply to both. I still like the idea of trigger chance based on Dex (increasing damage one way) or alternatively increasing Strength and Phys power, increasing it the other way. If you go Dex, then you get more damage from triggers. If you go Str, you get more damage from melee attacks. Both help spell power. In principle, you can go casting still, by opening up closed trees and investing category points appropriately.bricks wrote: One general improvement to the class would be to reevaluate the stat point use. I like how edge's Temporal Wardens and Brawlers have a few different stats they can choose to emphasize, and it has a noticeable impact on the development of the player character. Arcane Blades need pretty much everything but Cunning (and they were even given Dirty Fighting as a locked tree); building "magic heavy" (more direct spellcasting), "dexterity heavy" (more spell-on-melee focused, dual wielding?), "strength heavy" (berserker + magic options), and "willpower heavy" (support for both lots of active technique and spell usage) all strike me as potential development paths. Right now there is some crossover, but equipment restrictions, limited mana, and odd dexterity interactions make it hard to choose one focus.
Air is slightly more dual-wield friendly, Earth is Sword and Board friendly, Fire is two-hander friendly, and water makes swapping between weapon sets easy. A Water/Earth build could be very tank-like, while a Earth/Fire build might only have 5 actived abilities, and 11 sustains plus stances. A Fire/Fire (the archmage tree) build could be very spell power focused and simply burn everything down.
Re: A look at the Arcane Blade in B37
Not sure if want...Tier 4: Master Blade: Stamina and Mana Sustain: +15/30/45/60/75 disarm resistance. Also, when attacked by a ranged projectile (arrow/bolt), roll Accuracy vs attacker's Accuracy. If successful, negate the attack. At level 3 affects reflectable spells (roll Accuracy vs Spell power). At level 5, reflects reflectable spells back at the caster.
Re: A look at the Arcane Blade in B37
Pretty neat idea for a generic tree but I'm with Rectifier here, the last one is pretty powerful. If this was a class talent it would still be to strong.Hirumakai wrote:
The last tree would be a generic point tree.
Arcane-Veteran tree, Magic requirement
Tier 1: Veteran Blade: Passive: Gain 0.5/1.0/1.5/2.0/2.5 stamina per attack with a main hand weapon.
Tier 2: Arcane Armor: Mana Sustain: -% fatigue and +% bonus armor of the main body piece of armor. (I.e. 100% bonus of the 16 armor of Voratun plate would be an extra 16 armor). % based on spellpower.
Tier 3: Arcane Feed: Stamina Sustain: 0.1/0.2/0.3/0.4/0.5 mana regen per turn.
Tier 4: Master Blade: Stamina and Mana Sustain: +15/30/45/60/75 disarm resistance. Also, when attacked by a ranged projectile (arrow/bolt), roll Accuracy vs attacker's Accuracy. If successful, negate the attack. At level 3 affects reflectable spells (roll Accuracy vs Spell power). At level 5, reflects reflectable spells back at the caster.
I'd also change Veteran Blade. Have it convert a percentage of spent mana into stamina instead and it fits the class better. In other words, if a spell costs 20 mana I might get 10 stamina back with 5/5 Veteran Blade. Maybe swap it with the mana regen talent so you get the ability to regenerate mana and then the ability to convert it into stamina. You could even reverse these.. have spent stamina become mana.
Master Blade... hmm... the class is starting to feel kinda Kensai to me. What if you could enchant your weapon somehow? Set up a mystic bond between yourself and it. Perhaps this could only be done once every character level and only one weapon at a time. The bond could give you bonuses to accuracy and damage with that weapon along with a passive chance to 'parry' melee attacks and projectiles (just negate the damage, don't reflect it back, and *only projectiles*)
So..
Bonded Weapon - You may forge a deep bond with a single weapon increasing your accuracy and damage with this weapon by %d. Additionally while wielding your bonded weapon you have a %d chance to parry any melee attack made against you, negating all damage. At talent level four you may also parry projectiles, both magical and mundane. Only one weapon may be bonded at a time and you may only bond a new weapon once per character level.
Re: A look at the Arcane Blade in B37
The weapon bond means you either keep the skill useless untill you find the best weapon, keep an inferior weapon throughout the game after choosing one or have the skill become useless after switching to a better weapon. It plays counter to the whole you can always find a better weapon gameplay mechanic. I suppose you could bond a new weapon, but when you do the old weapon gets destroyed.
I do have to say that the current form of master blade syncs a whole lot better with the air stance than with any of the other stances.
Alternative suggestion: accuracy adds to ranged defense and physical power adds a percentage of elemental damage to the mana pool (without diminishing the damage)
Or, if overpowerdness is the only problem, make it drain stamina/mana over time and adjust values till it's no longer overpowered.
I do have to say that the current form of master blade syncs a whole lot better with the air stance than with any of the other stances.
Alternative suggestion: accuracy adds to ranged defense and physical power adds a percentage of elemental damage to the mana pool (without diminishing the damage)
Or, if overpowerdness is the only problem, make it drain stamina/mana over time and adjust values till it's no longer overpowered.
What damage type would water have, cold or acid? With cold you could be back to the whole ice block on every strike, unless you don't consider that much of a problem for a tier 4.The tier 4 is a reworked Arcane Destruction. This would be a mana sustain. It converts the base damage of the weapons you are wielding to the associated element of the stance. Your physical 2 handed sword is now fire damage in the fire stance. It would also increase that elemental damage by a % as well as providing some elemental penetration to that element.
Re: A look at the Arcane Blade in B37
The weapon bond can be applied to a new weapon once per character level. In other words you could change it fifty times over the course of the game. A lot of players will have the weapon they plan to finish the game with by 50 and if they don't they can keep a weapon they bonded at 49 around awhile until they find one. I'm not sure it really needs the once per character level thing to balance it but thematically I like it. If you can change it at will I'd just make it a sustain (which works honestly, even thematically).
Oh.. and bonus points if you can only bond weapons powered by arcane forces
Oh.. and bonus points if you can only bond weapons powered by arcane forces
Re: A look at the Arcane Blade in B37
My apologies, looks like I missed that bit of text when I read it.
Re: A look at the Arcane Blade in B37
Heh, this reminds me a lot of many of my plans for a new module - some of it identical, in fact! Ah well...
Some neat stuff, especially giving the option of different playstyles. Much of it is overpowered, like the AoE status effects and the spell-reflecting, but that can be rejigged. It also may be tricky balancing between the trees - will players always favour one and never touch the others? Some suggestions:
- Remove the weapon switching from water, it'll only irritate
- Change Arcane Prowess to give up to 25% of both stats instead of 50% of the higheset one, so people don't feel the need to focus on one lone stat
- Make statuses 10-25% chance on strike and change water to frozen instead of confuse
- Make AoE status radius 0/0/0/1/2 instead of 0/0/3/4/5
- Make Form of Air a sustain
- Change Aura of Fire to 10-50% stun res instead of outright frozen resistance
- Shield of Fire feels unthematic in the tree since it encourage defensive tactics. Maybe change to something like Spouting Flames - triggers on Aura of Fire and Fire Strike now have a chance to beam beyond the adjacent enemy (like Flame currently does at level 5).
- Tornado Strike is a bit too powerful. Maybe change to Chain Strike - like chain lightning, but with the character zipping about hitting several enemies in a chain. Would be a chaotic version of Whirlwind strike in some ways. Mixed with the evasion from Form of Air it would encourage a fighting style that involves taking on numerous enemies at once.
Weapon bond sounds awful in my opinion, especially with the very odd and artificial "per level" restriction.
Some neat stuff, especially giving the option of different playstyles. Much of it is overpowered, like the AoE status effects and the spell-reflecting, but that can be rejigged. It also may be tricky balancing between the trees - will players always favour one and never touch the others? Some suggestions:
- Remove the weapon switching from water, it'll only irritate
- Change Arcane Prowess to give up to 25% of both stats instead of 50% of the higheset one, so people don't feel the need to focus on one lone stat
- Make statuses 10-25% chance on strike and change water to frozen instead of confuse
- Make AoE status radius 0/0/0/1/2 instead of 0/0/3/4/5
- Make Form of Air a sustain
- Change Aura of Fire to 10-50% stun res instead of outright frozen resistance
- Shield of Fire feels unthematic in the tree since it encourage defensive tactics. Maybe change to something like Spouting Flames - triggers on Aura of Fire and Fire Strike now have a chance to beam beyond the adjacent enemy (like Flame currently does at level 5).
- Tornado Strike is a bit too powerful. Maybe change to Chain Strike - like chain lightning, but with the character zipping about hitting several enemies in a chain. Would be a chaotic version of Whirlwind strike in some ways. Mixed with the evasion from Form of Air it would encourage a fighting style that involves taking on numerous enemies at once.
Weapon bond sounds awful in my opinion, especially with the very odd and artificial "per level" restriction.
Re: A look at the Arcane Blade in B37
1) That feels a lot like Positive/Negative energy. I use these abilities so I can use those abilities so I can use these abilities. I'm not sure if that is good or bad. Its an interesting mechanic, but then makes it feel more like the Celestial classes.edge2054 wrote: I'd also change Veteran Blade. Have it convert a percentage of spent mana into stamina instead and it fits the class better. In other words, if a spell costs 20 mana I might get 10 stamina back with 5/5 Veteran Blade. Maybe swap it with the mana regen talent so you get the ability to regenerate mana and then the ability to convert it into stamina. You could even reverse these.. have spent stamina become mana.
2) Late game, high proc rates on Arcane Combat is going to be constantly recharing stamina when in combat, something like 10 mana a turn being converted to 5 stamina with your numbers. Plus whatever actual spells get cast. Maximum throughput is likely to be something on the order of 100-150 mana / 20 turns or so, based on mana surge rune quality, for 2.5-3.75 stamina per turn. This doesn't seem unreasonable. You're also going to be bumping it up in large amounts when casting big spells, like Inferno, which is akin to effects like Second Wind.
3) The question is, given there are no stamina infusions, is it ok to tie stamina to mana use, which does have one of the easiest ways to get it back on a rune?
4) The stamina to mana conversion might be more reasonable. Of course, stamina has alot fewer recovery options than mana, so its not going to be that big of an endurance improvement and wouldn't synergize with mana surge runes. Stamina recovery starts at 0.3, and assuming we kept the tier 1 the way it is, would roughly be 2.8 stamina a per turn while attacking. You'd need something like a 1 to 1 to make it even approach parity with the mana regen 0.5 affected by mana surge runes. And really if you are attacking non-stop. Plus, you can't just hit r and fill up your mana bar, you need to swing at nothing a bunch of times - which is something I've noticed we've moved away from (old Arcane Feed of taking stamina and converting to mana as an activate was changed to just mana regen).
The mana->stamina idea an interesting idea to play around with in any case, but DG might have some feelings on the matter.
Fair enough. Reflection is probably over the top. I was thinking of having the reason to put more points be an increase in Accuracy for the stopping projectiles and spells, and initially start with a penalty. I.e. Accuracy - 20 vs Accuracy/Accuracy -15 vs Accuracy/Accuracy - 10/ Accuracy - 5/Accuracy -0 where those minuses are *after* recaling. So if you started even Accuracy, -10 would still put you to 0% odds.Rectifier wrote:Not sure if want...At level 5, reflects reflectable spells back at the caster.
I was thinking along these lines initially as well, but decided against it for several reasons.edge2054 wrote: Pretty neat idea for a generic tree but I'm with Rectifier here, the last one is pretty powerful. If this was a class talent it would still be to strong.
Master Blade... hmm... the class is starting to feel kinda Kensai to me. What if you could enchant your weapon somehow? Set up a mystic bond between yourself and it. Perhaps this could only be done once every character level and only one weapon at a time. The bond could give you bonuses to accuracy and damage with that weapon along with a passive chance to 'parry' melee attacks and projectiles (just negate the damage, don't reflect it back, and *only projectiles*)
So..
Bonded Weapon - You may forge a deep bond with a single weapon increasing your accuracy and damage with this weapon by %d. Additionally while wielding your bonded weapon you have a %d chance to parry any melee attack made against you, negating all damage. At talent level four you may also parry projectiles, both magical and mundane. Only one weapon may be bonded at a time and you may only bond a new weapon once per character level.
A) I don't like the idea of a benefit you hesitate to use on a character. At level 50, you're going to hesitate to use that power, because what if the second to last boss drops an *even better* weapon. What if you're playing in the Infinite Dungeon and you *know* you're going to find better weapons. Definitely make it a sustain, possibly even a Stamina and Mana sustain.
B) It also has anti-synergy with Water strike, unless its a sustain which applies to all weapons (easier to code). Why swap weapon sets when you can only have 1 bonded weapon? Also, a single weapon effect heavily favors the Sword and Board or 2-handers. Dual wielders are out of luck.
C) The biggest one is Accuracy and Damage boosts are already available (to everyone) in the combat training tree. Do we really want another Generic talent that provides more accuracy and more damage? We've already got 20 generic points worth of that in the class.
D) Lastly, the majority of attacks against a character (especially a melee character!) are going to be melee, at least early game. And late game melee uniques can have insane damage outputs (in melee). Permanent, non-dispelable (if bonded as opposed to susstained) evasion % for the majority of the game more valuable than reflectable spell prevention. Evasion is also available in the Air tree, so we'd be doubling up on effects. The reason I was went for projectile and spells, almost every defensive ability in the game works better against melee attack than against ranged ones and especially spell ones. The only two that don't are Slow Motion and Entropic Field. I was aiming for a hopefully unique counter-spell like ability that isn't used all that much, but shines in a few cases where other classes don't.
So anyways, I have no objection to removing the reflect effect. Just so we know what we are talking about the talents which include the reflectable flag are:
Martyrdom (bolt)
Moonlight Ray (beam)
Searing Light (hit)
Turn Back the Clock (bolt)
Dust to Dust (beam)
Quantum Spike (hit)
Temporal Wake (beam)
Rethread (beam)
Time Skip (hit)
Drain (bolt)
Sticky Smoke (bolt)
Dark Torrent (beam)
Flamespit (bolt)
Rune of the Rift (hit)
Water Bolt (hit)
Water Jet (hit)
Void Blast (bolt)
Lightning (beam)
Chain Lightning (bolt)
Manathrust (bolt < 3) (beam >= 3)
Dig (bolt)
Stone Wall (bolt)
Flame (bolt < 5) (beam >= 5)
Invoke Darkness (bolt < 3) (beam >= 3)
Channel Staff (bolt)
Earthen Missiles (bolt)
Shock (bolt)
Congeal Time (beam)
Time Prison (hit)
Freeze (hit)
A few effects you might expect are not actually on that list due to lacking reflectable=true, things like Strike and the NPC Elemental Bolt powers. So perhaps a pass should be done to consider if other abilities should have the reflectable flag, irregardless of what the tier 4 winds up being in the tree.
There are 11 effects which are reflectable and bolt, 14 if you include the low level versions of Flame (the bolded ones), Invoke Darkness and Manathrust (which you'll never see at low level late game). There are 30 effects which are just reflectable - nearly half are Archmage powers, followed by temporal powers, then a smattering of other classes. So reducing the set to only bolt spells is possible, it just feels like it won't really be worth taking or running since the set is so small. 11 effects in the entire game just feels too small, virtually all against Archmage skills.
I'd probably switch to an entirely different effect if allowing all "reflectable" spells to be stopped is too strong.
Re: A look at the Arcane Blade in B37
As its a first draft, I don't expect everything to balanced yet. Thanks very much for the comments. As for balance, thats a problem any class has to deal with. Although I think there's enough difference between them that they'll appeal to different play styles. An Arcane Fire/Fire build is going to play very different from an Arcane Water/Arcane Earth build, for example.Grey wrote: Some neat stuff, especially giving the option of different playstyles. Much of it is overpowered, like the AoE status effects and the spell-reflecting, but that can be rejigged. It also may be tricky balancing between the trees - will players always favour one and never touch the others?
Just for background, the idea was originally that Fire would be slightly better for 2 handed weapons, Earth better for Sword and Board, and Air for dual wielding. Water we thought could be used to bridge styles, by providing the ability to switch without losing a turn, if you chose to focus on multiple fighting styles.Grey wrote: - Remove the weapon switching from water, it'll only irritate
For example, image the character is in fire stance, then water strikes, switches to her dual wielding set, then Air Strikes to end up in the final stance she wants, without taking up a swap action. However, I definitely see your point, and will just code it as a 1 turn buff after hitting which lets you swap weapon sets without turn cost if you so choose, and not actually have it swap when striking.
I'm not convinced forcing people to focus on two fixed stats is better than letting them focus on one of their choice. They'll feel obligated to focus on two stats. It'll also tend to be much weaker early game and slightly weaker late game as stat bonus gear kicks in.Grey wrote: - Change Arcane Prowess to give up to 25% of both stats instead of 50% of the higheset one, so people don't feel the need to focus on one lone stat
Do you feel the confuse effect is too strong for a strike? There's a couple reason I'd prefer it not freeze. The first it doesn't allow debuffs to be applied. The idea of letting Water be a transitional element and having it freeze makes it less ideal to immediately follow up with another debuff Strike. The tree itself is more water themed than ice themed, and we felt water lent itself well to the concept of confusion. If confusion proves too powerful, I can try changing it freeze, but it fits better with the styles and I believe is thematic.Grey wrote: - Make statuses 10-25% chance on strike and change water to frozen instead of confuse
Making the AoE have a 10-25 % chance to apply a debuff seems fine, but I believe the strike's target (the only one taking damage) should have it hit 100%, mitigated by saves and resistances of course. I'd rather drop the strike's AoE effects at high level completely than reduce the single target effectiveness. I've seen enough Arcane blades leaving Stunning blow at 1 point, that I'd actually like people to have a reason to bump it up to 5/5.
That seems reasonable. It mostly for the sense of so much magic in the strike its affecting everything in the area as well.Grey wrote: - Make AoE status radius 0/0/0/1/2 instead of 0/0/3/4/5
I can do that, but I'm worried about a high % evasion and it being always on. Not sure what an approriate cap would be. 50%, 33%, 25%? Certainly something like 75% all the time would be too strong, and drive players crazy when fighting NPCs.Grey wrote: - Make Form of Air a sustain
We thought providing immunity to only Freeze Ice blocks was somewhat different than the traditional melee source of Stun resistance. Of course, now that I think about it more, you're probably right. The Iceblock immunity is eventually going to become redundant with Stun resistance anyways, since everyone needs it, and it ceases to be relevant.Grey wrote: - Change Aura of Fire to 10-50% stun res instead of outright frozen resistance
How about this idea instead, stolen from the Wildfire tree: While hit points are above 33%, once per turn it removes a single harmful status effect, but you take something like 2% unresistable fire damage? Or perhaps resistible Aura damage. Kind of like a portable cleansing flame effect. Or maybe you take 0.5 or 1% unresistable fire damage irregardless of whether you have harmful effects or not. Thoughts? Otherwise I can go with the traditional 10/20/30/40/50% Stun resistance option.
I can see how Shield of Fire might be used in a defensive build that way. I'm hesitant to make it a buff to just to other skills in the tree, however.Grey wrote: - Shield of Fire feels unthematic in the tree since it encourage defensive tactics. Maybe change to something like Spouting Flames - triggers on Aura of Fire and Fire Strike now have a chance to beam beyond the adjacent enemy (like Flame currently does at level 5).
How about a Shattering Impact like effect? X% of mainhand damage dealt is dealt in a radius 1 ball to all enemies (excluding the target just hit). This is dealt as fire damage. At 5/5 it is a radius 2 ball. Make it a costly 150 or 200 mana sustain.
I'm not a fan of having the character move to locations not under your direction. Its tends to be a good way to wind up in the middle of things where you don't want to be. I personally would not use such a skill. Why do you feel Tornado strike is too powerful? Obviously it would partly depend on the damage % per strike, which would start around 50% probably and work its way up to 100%. Is it the ignoring defense (guaranteed hit?) or ignoring armor? Its very similar to flurry except its effectively trading the 3rd main and offhand hits for accuracy and APR. In the vast majority of situations, it will likely being doing less damage than flurry. Any attack spell doing just damage ignores accuracy and armor, so it doesn't strike me as particularly unreasonable. Is the cooldown too short? I could raise it to flurry's 12 turns.Grey wrote: - Tornado Strike is a bit too powerful. Maybe change to Chain Strike - like chain lightning, but with the character zipping about hitting several enemies in a chain. Would be a chaotic version of Whirlwind strike in some ways. Mixed with the evasion from Form of Air it would encourage a fighting style that involves taking on numerous enemies at once.
As for the Tier 4 Generic, there's some other things we could do, I'm going to throw out a couple more random ideas. I still like the cutting down arrows and counterspelling spells, but in case that doesn't seem balanced here's a few alternatives (which may or may not be balanced:
1) Arcane Warrior: Stamina and Magic sustain: Gain Attack Speed bonus (based on Phys power) and Casting Speed bonus (based on Spell power).
2) Arcane Frenzy: After each kill, regain 1/2/3/4/5 stamina and 1/2/3/4/5 mana.
3) Master Blade: Every time you hit with a main hand melee weapon, gain a stacking 1/2/3/4/5% global speed boost for 5 turns.
Re: A look at the Arcane Blade in B37
The weapon switch on/after hit makes waterform a very one turn only form. Which is a bit counter to the healing buff mod, or the whole idea of entering a stance.Hirumakai wrote:Just for background, the idea was originally that Fire would be slightly better for 2 handed weapons, Earth better for Sword and Board, and Air for dual wielding. Water we thought could be used to bridge styles, by providing the ability to switch without losing a turn, if you chose to focus on multiple fighting styles.
For example, image the character is in fire stance, then water strikes, switches to her dual wielding set, then Air Strikes to end up in the final stance she wants, without taking up a swap action. However, I definitely see your point, and will just code it as a 1 turn buff after hitting which lets you swap weapon sets without turn cost if you so choose, and not actually have it swap when striking.
Perhaps you should instead move the free weapon switch from water strike to the water stance? This will also allow people to more freely move to a new stance without having to use water strike a second time, making water stance more of a 'keep your options open' stance.
With 25% on both, it will give just as much with 10str/40dex as with 25str/25dex. I'm not sure how this would discourage people from min/maxing if they want. However, 25% of both is always less than 50% of the highest, unless both stats are exactly equal. If 50% was considered balanced, you may want to adjust the values to 30%.I'm not convinced forcing people to focus on two fixed stats is better than letting them focus on one of their choice. They'll feel obligated to focus on two stats. It'll also tend to be much weaker early game and slightly weaker late game as stat bonus gear kicks in.
Re: A look at the Arcane Blade in B37
Yeah, confuse is just too strong. Why switch to another debuff after that when they are fully disabled? Freeze is more tactically interesting, and I think in terms of gamepaly fits well with the water tree - let's you take a breather to heal and reset cooldowns, and you can wait till the freeze wears off to switch to another debuff. The idea of water slowing down battle makes sense to me.Hirumakai wrote: Do you feel the confuse effect is too strong for a strike? There's a couple reason I'd prefer it not freeze. The first it doesn't allow debuffs to be applied. The idea of letting Water be a transitional element and having it freeze makes it less ideal to immediately follow up with another debuff Strike. The tree itself is more water themed than ice themed, and we felt water lent itself well to the concept of confusion. If confusion proves too powerful, I can try changing it freeze, but it fits better with the styles and I believe is thematic.
Also you'll need to use the cold damage type in the tree at some point, I presume. There is no pure water damage, and acid seems inappropriate.
Yeah, no way that strong. It's just that as an activate no one would ever use it. Maybe it needs a more interesting effect instead.I can do that, but I'm worried about a high % evasion and it being always on. Not sure what an approriate cap would be. 50%, 33%, 25%? Certainly something like 75% all the time would be too strong, and drive players crazy when fighting NPCs.
I'd avoid such heavy cost sustains as no one ever uses them, no matter how powerful the effect.How about a Shattering Impact like effect? X% of mainhand damage dealt is dealt in a radius 1 ball to all enemies (excluding the target just hit). This is dealt as fire damage. At 5/5 it is a radius 2 ball. Make it a costly 150 or 200 mana sustain.
Guaranteeing hit and armor negation makes it a one point wonder talent that further trivialises many enemies. Perhaps make it a gradual +acc, +ap, +crit.Why do you feel Tornado strike is too powerful? Obviously it would partly depend on the damage % per strike, which would start around 50% probably and work its way up to 100%. Is it the ignoring defense (guaranteed hit?) or ignoring armor?
I suggested the random movement thing though because I think it would be eriously fun. You might not like it, but I'm sure others would. If the air tree is built around lots of movement and high defense then it could work well as a chaotic fighter type that flits between enemies with ease.
I'd stick away from playing with speed - DarkGod doesn't like it for a start. I'd also stick away from talents that step on other classes' toes. Why should the AB be better at missile defense than an archer or fighter? Or better at magic defence than an archmage?As for the Tier 4 Generic, there's some other things we could do, I'm going to throw out a couple more random ideas. I still like the cutting down arrows and counterspelling spells, but in case that doesn't seem balanced here's a few alternatives (which may or may not be balanced:
1) Arcane Warrior: Stamina and Magic sustain: Gain Attack Speed bonus (based on Phys power) and Casting Speed bonus (based on Spell power).
2) Arcane Frenzy: After each kill, regain 1/2/3/4/5 stamina and 1/2/3/4/5 mana.
3) Master Blade: Every time you hit with a main hand melee weapon, gain a stacking 1/2/3/4/5% global speed boost for 5 turns.
The generic should also feel a bit more generic I think, with passive talents that could theoretically benefit any class. Or one could just not give them another generic tree, or give them an existing one like Divination (or keep Aegis on them - it's still an appropriate tree).
Re: A look at the Arcane Blade in B37
Lots of good ideas in here. I'm glad to see AB get a little work as I always felt it a tough class to play, but also very interesting... I love the idea of the stances!