Artifacts you don't want

[edge2054]

It's been a couple of months since we last talked about the ideas in this thread but since the idea has been brought back up and it's been proposed the guaranteed drops be handled a bit differently I figured I'd take the liberty of bumping this thread. /runon sentence >.>

So anyway... bumped

Here's some thoughts on possible trade ins for Bill's Tree Trunk.

An artifact dwarven-steel pickaxe that grants infravision. (Morian Pickaxe; the weapon shop keeper in Bree trades it to you for the Tree Trunk, which he keeps as a trophy.) (In turn maybe the pickaxe could be traded to a dwarf somewhere for something else; maybe a dwarven-steel plate artifact of some kind.)

An artifact dagger that infects targets with a random disease (casts a low level virulent disease on hit) (Tom's Big Toe; the blade of this foul looking dagger is said to be fashioned from the big toe of Bill's brother, Tom.) (A traveling two-handed weapon specialist could trade this to the character for the tree trunk, a berserker perhaps, "That tree trunk looks suitable as a a weapon... I don't have much to offer for it but maybe you'll find this dagger to be of use?")

I might flesh these out more later. Trying to get some chronomancy stuff done before work though.

[Repton]

What: Old Man Willow's Barkwood
Who: Grizzled old lumberjack
Where: Lumberjack village in Mirkwood
Reward: "My granddad's granddad used this in the Battle of the Five Armies, or so they say. We just used it for cutting wood. Keeps a fine edge, mind."

Woodsman's Axe [waraxe]
+4 Str
+4 Cun
30% chance on hit to cleave into another foe (like the cursed talent, but not hate-based)
Good APR, Crit, perhaps some slime damage?

[Repton]

What: Staff of Destruction
Who: Staff shop
Where: Angolwen
Chat: "You know, I found some mithril a while ago and tried to make something like this myself, but I could never get it to work. You may as well take it."
Reward: Elemental mithril mace.

[Feanor.81]

Don't know if this is the right direction, you're all proposing to exchange an artifact you don't want for another artifact many other classes won't want as well. It is the same as just adding more artifacts to the game, period, so eventually you will find the one that suits you and just throw away the useless ones.

IMO it would be better to think of a way to put any artifact at good use for *any* class; rewards in exp, talent points, or maybe user guided re-crafting through a quest, npc, shop or whatever, sound to me as really good alternatives.

[edge2054]

Here's the biggest thing that's trying to get corrected Feanor. There's other issues but this is the one that sticks out like a sore thumb.

Every one-handed weapon wielder dumps points into Sword Mastery because Ringil is a guaranteed drop.

So the solution is to either make it so Ringil isn't a guaranteed drop (which means the GML won't always use it, or he won't always drop it, the later being really cheesy) or give players other suitable options.

While I agree that options to trade items for xp or special abilities are good too (and useful for everyone) they don't address the core concern.

Repton's posts certainly do. They put a couple of guaranteed one-handed weapons in the game so players can build their axe-wielding dwarves if they want and not feel like they're shooting themselves in the foot.

I think if we focus on the drops in the west and get a few options for trading in each of those artifacts, it'll give players plenty of build options from guaranteed items for early game.

From there we can expand into world artifact and east drops.

Then we add in a couple of other options for each item, skill points, talent tree access, stat points, or whatever (heck even a stack of healing potions or scrolls would be nice early game as a trade for Bill's Tree Trunk).

[Feanor.81]

I hope to not sound critic here, but I can't really see what Ringil and the lack of ultimate weapons for the other weapon types has to do with "Artifacts you don't want" topic. For example, just add the missing artifacts for those weapon types and a couple of guaranteed quests / bosses and you're done. Or maybe apply the previous suggestions of an artifact exchange system, which sound all good to me, but let's open for them a separate thread on the topic "How we introduce new class targeted artifacts in the game?"

The real problem debated here is: since any class build is rightfully expecting to have at least one really good artifact in the game, what are we gonna do with the countless ones which do not suit our current class? Just throw them away? Sell them for mere, anonymous gold like now? Or get some kind of reward for the efforts we put in getting them, even knowing they won't be of any use for us? Personally, I'd like a lot a reward system here, and IMO any artifact can have an equivalent value for other classes in terms of power the character gains from wearing/wielding that artifact (the bonuses a fighter gets from using Ringil can surely be worth a couple of talent points or a level up for another class, for example). But this would surely popup the problem that this way one would have a lot of talent points at his disposal, considering the high number of artifacts there are around...

[edge2054]

The above fleshed out.

What: Bill's Tree Trunk
Who: Bree Weapon Shopkeeper
Where: Bree
Reward: "Why that's old Bill's ain't it? (yes/no) I'd love to have that hangin' on my wall. Perhaps you'd have use for this old pickaxe? (sure/no thanks)."

Code: Select all

newEntity{ base = "BASE_DIGGER",
    define_as = "PICKAXE_MORIAN",
    name = "Morian Pickaxe", unique=true,
    desc = [[This dwarven-steel pickaxe was forged before the fall of Moria and is the last of it's kind...  according to the man who traded it to you anyway.]],
    rarity = false,
    cost = 5,
    material_level = 5,
    digspeed = resolvers.rngavg(20,25),
    wielder = {
        infravision = 5,
        inc_stats = { [Stats.STAT_CON] = 2, },        
    },
}

[edge2054]

And I understand what you're saying Feanor. The other issue to address ultimately is giving players an incentive to go after bosses that don't drop something they find useful at all.

Maybe you're right, maybe this is the wrong way to go about it.

The user guided recrafting thing you suggested earlier sounds really good.

[teachu2die]

i don't think being able to trade any artifact in for skill or stat points is going to work towards balancing things any further.
i maintain the only really fair thing is to leave the acquisition of high-powered artifacts up to a fair degree of chance. guaranteeing ringil is borderline game-breaking. and if one guarantees the opportunity to trade ringil for a silmilarly powered weapon of any type, it is still game-breaking, becuase it means that essentially every character will be wielding their ideal weapon before going east.

[darkgod]

Yeah talents for arts is fun but the number of talents available is carefully crafted, this would throw it completly off balance :/

[Repton]

i don't think being able to trade any artifact in for skill or stat points is going to work towards balancing things any further.
i maintain the only really fair thing is to leave the acquisition of high-powered artifacts up to a fair degree of chance. guaranteeing ringil is borderline game-breaking. and if one guarantees the opportunity to trade ringil for a silmilarly powered weapon of any type, it is still game-breaking, becuase it means that essentially every character will be wielding their ideal weapon before going east.

Well, my solution there would be to make Ringil not the ultimate weapon for sword users. But that's not so good from a lore point of view.
(although -- if you found an elemental mithril long sword of massacre, would you still use Ringil? Hmm..)

But I certainly don't think it's worse to introduce other Ringil-level weapons. I can't see anyone using both...

[Burb Lulls]

(although -- if you found an elemental mithril long sword of massacre, would you still use Ringil? Hmm..)

Actually, I've just found an acidic mithril longsword of massacre with my Ringil-using fighter luckily enough. Here's how they compare:

Ringil
Damage: 38 - 53.2
Damage On Strike: 15 Ice (Which can stun) (Edit: Whoops, not cold.)
+20% Cold Damage
25% Cold Resistance
Light Radius 1, See Invisible 2

Acidic Mithril Longsword Of Massacre
Damage: 48 - 58.1
Damage On Strike: 13 Acid
+21% Physical Damage

The AMLoM certainly has the edge damagewise, but I'm finding the potential stuns from Ringil's cold damage very hard to give up. What would you use?

[edge2054]

Maybe Ringil should deal cold damage rather then ice damage.

[Repton]

I think Ringil has the edge on APR too, and perhaps crit chance, although I can't check right now.

But that's why I suggested elemental

[Burb Lulls]

Having a look now... Ringil has 10 APR and 10% crit chance. The AMLoM has 6 APR and 5% crit. Dear dear...