Rouge subclasses overhoul

[konca]

So in theory rougue should be stealthy hard hitter who can use traps to his advantage.
Shadow blade should be the same like rougue however instead of traps he uses magic to help himself in the battle.
The problem atm is that traps too early becomes useless compared to rougue combats skills - you are much better off with
maxing stealth + combat skills then traps - in fact after lv 10 - (around 40 min of gameplay traps are not really usefull ) combat rougue is
much better then trap rougue. The main reason for that is imo that traps works like a "magic" most of the time in melle range but rougue doesnt have
any crowd control or bigg repertuar of ranged attacks.
And still shadow blade >> rougue. What i think that should be changed :
buff traps skill tree : better scaling of damage with cunning + allow mb to place some traps further away earlier . Add new skilltree
advanced traps ( or something ). Later on i might put some ideas for this..
Remove one of his combat skills ( rougue should be more focused on putting these traps throughout the game imo) - lethality id suggest.
Create new class (as i earlier suggested ) Assasin - stealthy lasthiter - he gets lethality + poison skill tree + one combat skilltree
id think something like stealth combat - big bonuses when fighting stealthed and some penalties when he gets revealed.
Shadow blade remains untouched.
What do y guys think about these general ideas?

[konca]

Stealth mastery 1.35 ( for rouge its 1.30 )
Skill trees ideas for assasin class :
Stealth combat
1 Stealthy executioner - sustained - adds 3*(lvl + cunning/4) to damage and + 3* stealth
2 Blink strike - Assasin teleports to a target in 12 range and hits it with both weopons for 100% + 20%*lv base damage - at lvl 5 doesnt break stealth
3 Throat cut - Powerful strike which silence target for 3 turns if they fail cunning test ( test with ( assasins cunning > 2 * targets cunning ) unresistable otherwise
50 % chance to resist. Does 100% + 15% * lvl damage and guarante critical strike. At lvl 5 doesnt break stealth.
4 Mastery of Stealth passive When stealthed assasins acts more quickly adds 5%* lvl to speed and + 0.3 * lvl to unseen actions skill however when he is spotted
he get confused and he suffers -35% penalty to speed for 3 turns.
(double edged sword )

Dirty poison
Poison darts 1 Deals 10 *( lvl + cunning/4 ) poison damage over 5 turns and slows target for 25% at lvl 5 it becomes ball with radius 2.
Poisoned knife - sustained adds some damage based on cunning to hit with knife
Web -Assasin place web on the ground - everyone who pass it is slowed
Snikes knifes - active 4 hits - instead of dealing physical damage assasin deals poisons damage when he hits with +x% bonus damage.
(poisoned knife is also included and both can score critical hit for example ) - i dont know if its easy codeable.
Any feedback?

[edge2054]

Darkgod's intention was to have give rogues more traps to learn outside of spending talent points.

The question is what should these new trap talents be and where/how should they be learned.

[teachu2die]

one immediately compelling answer is some chance to learn a trap type when you successfully disarm one. the other obvious one is 'trap teachers', perhaps at a hidden rogue guild or in a rogue-centered town, who grant such abilities for a moderate cost.
the basic trap types are already kind of covered by the existing rogue trap abilities, not totally sure what else could be productively added.

i think the rogue and shadowblade are adequately distinct, and each have their strengths. rogues have more free stat points to invest in dex and con, making them more capable of dealing and receiving damage. the traps are more there to augment rogue's combat and stealth abilities, and are not the primary focus of the class.
if any rogue class needs some more distinct abilities, i'd say its the shadowblade, who's most useful unique skills (basically phase door and vision) have been somewhat obviated by the inclusion of runes.
i think an assassin class is a fine idea. i sketched out some basic ideas in the old assassin thread that konca started, there might be some worthwhile ideas in there.
i also think rogue class relying a ranged weapon (preferably a crossbow) would be cool (no real ideas to contribute atm).

[edge2054]

While working on the anorithil stuff the idea for a moon caster/archer came up. Could be a fun hybrid to sprinkle some stealth and survival stuff onto.

[konca]

I really dont know why y guys dont agree that atm trap skill tree doesnt make enought impact. I seriously think that the best strategy for rougue is to skip it entirely and to concentrate on stealth + combat. Imo rougue should be a hybrid who concentrates on putting traps AND fighting. Atm its only fighting. As for ranged assasin
i'd guess that better idea is to create someone like "sniper" ( this would be "ranged assasin" ). As for me hard hitter while stealthed theme really deserves new class.
For additional trap skill tree mb something like this : ( we have to remember that with this tree rougue requires some nerf to his combat abilities - mb remove some of the combat skill tree or change mastery factor? )
Advanced traps ( class , locked require higher lvls then normal)
1 Master of explosion gives lvl * 20% reduction to his own traps + x% *lvl damage to traps
2 Electric snake Static trap which shot lightning ball to every enemy in Y range for X damage ( on lvl 5 it has Z% chance to daze )
3 Dark pit on activation it explodes in radius Y for X darkness damage and blinds the enemies .
4 Thick fog - rougue throws vial which creates very thick fog for 3 + lvl turns and in 4x4 square
while being in the fog rougue remains stealthed and cant break stealth.
Obviously these are powerfull skills but if we want to have rougue who actually uses traps..
What do y think?

[greycat]

I really dont know why y guys dont agree that atm trap skill tree doesnt make enought impact.

If it were just about power, you could easily make the Rogue's traps do 600 points of damage. That would make an impact.

The objective is to make each class have something unique; something that sets it apart from the others. For Rogues, right now, that something is traps. The traps are quite new, and are still in development. I'm sure that in upcoming releases, there will be a better variety of them, and they'll be more interesting and more powerful.

[Sirrocco]

For that matter, it seems that stealth is also not terribly useful for the rogue, at least at the moment. This is likely at least partially because the power is not as easy to control/predict/optimize on as most available powers.

[konca]

So with chronomancy development there will be class which will replace Shadowblade?
So maybe we could add these assasin class to rougue tree as i proposed + sniper stealth ranged rougue who use crossbow?

[Final Master]

There is no replacing of classes, especially as all Chronomancy classes are VASTLY different than any other current class.