hymn of perseverance - is it overpowered?

[teachu2die]

....at least as an escort reward.
given how valuable stun resistance almost no class would ever consider another option from these rewards. in fact, generally speaking, it's by far the most powerful of all the escort rewards. and while i love getting it with my wyrmics or berzerkers, the 30% stun resistance at absolutely no cost is maybe a little cheap.
perhaps the bonuses granted from the tree should work the same way riposte works now (having it scale somewhat with magic, while making it useful at any talent level)? or maybe hymns and prayers could translate to have some kind of mana/stamina cost when used by classes without a negative/positive energy bar?

and as a side note, stun resistance still should probably be made a little more readily available from armor and equipment. an ego weapon type (maybe restricted to maces?) that grants a 10-20% stun resistance could be beneficial. and are there ego boots that grant a bit of it, yet?

(and yes, this post is a reaction to my suggestion that confusion be nerfed )

[Grey]

The hymn is far from guaranteed, and if you have sufficient stun res from other sources then the other options are perfectly viable. I don't think it's that much of a problem.

[edge2054]

An option is to nerf it on the low end, so Anorithil who can dump points into it still get as much use out of it but those who just dabble from an escort quest see a lot less.

[kingvictory2003]

It's really good to be sure, but I think there are enough items out there to achieve stun immunity with relative ease. Having the hymn at later levels is nice for opening up gearing options. I'm also not privy to all the changes going on with stun, but the theme seems to be that it is far less deadly than full-out paralysis, and that immunity is no longer essential.

I think the ability is fine as is.

[Sirrocco]

There are other quest rewards that are similar levels of excellent. The alchemist's imbuing ability gives you effectively +1 to all stats every time you take it. The seer's precog gives you some tasty damage resistance, and the rogue's trap detection can be awfully handy. Given that stun resistance is available to most classes in some form or another already, I don't really see a problem with it - particularly with the partial resist effect rules in. Generally, your class-based stun resist will get you to a point where you can handle being stunned (and if that won't, that + an item or two will) and the people who don't have any class-based resist don't need to be nerfed any harder on that account.

[teachu2die]

remember, there's confusion resistance in there as well, which is another very desirable thing. it just seems odd that it would be reasonably easy to get this ability that, at no cost, does considerably more benefit than decent gear in several equipment slots.
i agree, imbue and especially precog are very very nice as well, although i don't think they are quite as universally desirable, and there are more classes and abilities that additionally use mana than there are that use negative energy. a hymn or prayer is absolutely *free* to all non-divine classes.

An option is to nerf it on the low end, so Anorithil who can dump points into it still get as much use out of it but those who just dabble from an escort quest see a lot less.

thats more or less what i was thinking - maybe have it be 12.5% per level plus a certain amount that scales with magic, so an anorithil pumping it might get an even greater benefit from it than currently, but that level 4 dwarven berzerker wouldn't feel quite so thrilled.

[Sirrocco]

An option is to nerf it on the low end, so Anorithil who can dump points into it still get as much use out of it but those who just dabble from an escort quest see a lot less.

thats more or less what i was thinking - maybe have it be 12.5% per level plus a certain amount that scales with magic, so an anorithil pumping it might get an even greater benefit from it than currently, but that level 4 dwarven berzerker wouldn't feel quite so thrilled.

On the one side, I can see the point here. On the other side, I don't think that archmages need any more help, really.

[teachu2die]

thats true. the magic scaling would have to be reasonably modest, or be based on the overall percent (ie: say with 50 magic you'd get a 20% boost of the overall percentage resistance you have, so 20% boost of 12.5 would be 2.5% = 15%, but a 20% boost of 50% would be 10% = 60%....errr or something!)

[Grey]

it just seems odd that it would be reasonably easy to get this ability that, at no cost, does considerably more benefit than decent gear in several equipment slots.

Easy to get?! What sort of happy escorts do you find? Every anorithil and rogue quest I get has me hoping against hope that they won't be the usual suicidal fools. It's not easy to get, it's far from guaranteed. On the other hand every char is likely to find a 70% stun res armour at some point.

[Sirrocco]

thats true. the magic scaling would have to be reasonably modest, or be based on the overall percent (ie: say with 50 magic you'd get a 20% boost of the overall percentage resistance you have, so 20% boost of 12.5 would be 2.5% = 15%, but a 20% boost of 50% would be 10% = 60%....errr or something!)

Actually, if you really cared about nerfing it for non-anorithil (and I'll admit, I'm not seeing this as a tremendously valuable thing to do, overall) the better answer would be to have it start out weak and curve up. Have a progression that's somethign like 12.5%, 25%, 40%, 70%, 100%

[teachu2die]

Easy to get?! What sort of happy escorts do you find? Every anorithil and rogue quest I get has me hoping against hope that they won't be the usual suicidal fools. It's not easy to get, it's far from guaranteed. On the other hand every char is likely to find a 70% stun res armour at some point.

really? at least up to daikara, i generally succeed my escort quests (that isn't to say im a particularly great player - i haven't even gotten a character past daikara in the latest beta, although thats partially due to late night mistakes while playing a bit drunk ). the trollshaws are generally easy enough for escorts, and the old forest has corridors so you can shield them well. amon sul (or whatever its called now) has small enough levels that it's pretty easy unless they get blasted by a skeleton mage sneaking up from behind. even daikara isn't usually too bad if you've leveled a bit before taking it on...
and i actually don't often find armor of stability unless i scum for it, and even then it's usually a material level lower than i want to be wielding, or mail when i want plate, etc.

sirrocco, changing the way the talent scales would work too, yeah. i primarily was thinking having it scale w/ magic because many other hymns and prayers do as well. and you're right, maybe it doesn't need nerfing. just thought a dialogue on the topic was appropriate, as it is tremendously powerful, with no cost or drawbacks.