I was thinking it would be nice if you were forced to clean up each area before moving onwards.
Something like if you moved onwards, there was a penalty on returning to an earlier area;
like extra enemies;
maybe a formula like (enemies left behind, multiplied by your game difficulty, plus enemies left behind);
then I thought about it, and came up with, lets make it more realistic and make it be ((number of enemies left behind, raised to the power of your game difficulty, but at a higher level), plus enemies left behind).
Now, that would make it more fun.
going back to a previous area you didn't clean out properly?
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PseudoLoneWolf
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Re: going back to a previous area you didn't clean out prope
A few problems with this immediately come to mind.
First of all, vaults. Vaults are intended to be left behind, or to punish the hubris of the player that opens them. Penalizing a player for leaving behind a vault goes against their intended design space, which is high risk for potentially high reward. Those can easily be excluded from this, however.
Secondly, and far more importantly, is the issue of farming. TOME is specifically intended to prevent farming for anything, even going so far as to make adventurer/zigur/orc patrols give progressively less XP and items as you kill more of them until it becomes completely negligible after a few (less than ten, in my experience) patrols are fought. Repopulating areas with more monsters goes directly against this philosophy, unless you make the repopulated monsters drop no XP or items, in which case what is the point of going back to fight them anyway?
Realistically a player is never, ever going to return to a previously cleared/escaped area unless they are chasing a backup guardian or they are going to crack open a previously skipped vault. There is no other reason to do so. Adding more creatures that repopulate areas will make it tedious to return for vaults at best, or enable excessive farming and throwing the power curve completely out of whack at worst. Being able to repeatedly farm Trollmire and Kor'Pul to grab a prodigy before even entering the T2's is no good. Hitting the level cap before heading East is no good. Encouraging the player to return to areas they've already cleared will artificially increase the length of an already long campaign with little to no benefit to the player, and directly makes the game more boring as you're forced, or at best encouraged, to slog through places you've already been rather than going somewhere new and interesting.
The unfortunate truth is that adding more monsters, rather than being a detriment, is a boon to the player because XP and loot are limited resources in TOME. It would always be optimal to farm and that would suck all the fun out of much of the game.
First of all, vaults. Vaults are intended to be left behind, or to punish the hubris of the player that opens them. Penalizing a player for leaving behind a vault goes against their intended design space, which is high risk for potentially high reward. Those can easily be excluded from this, however.
Secondly, and far more importantly, is the issue of farming. TOME is specifically intended to prevent farming for anything, even going so far as to make adventurer/zigur/orc patrols give progressively less XP and items as you kill more of them until it becomes completely negligible after a few (less than ten, in my experience) patrols are fought. Repopulating areas with more monsters goes directly against this philosophy, unless you make the repopulated monsters drop no XP or items, in which case what is the point of going back to fight them anyway?
Realistically a player is never, ever going to return to a previously cleared/escaped area unless they are chasing a backup guardian or they are going to crack open a previously skipped vault. There is no other reason to do so. Adding more creatures that repopulate areas will make it tedious to return for vaults at best, or enable excessive farming and throwing the power curve completely out of whack at worst. Being able to repeatedly farm Trollmire and Kor'Pul to grab a prodigy before even entering the T2's is no good. Hitting the level cap before heading East is no good. Encouraging the player to return to areas they've already cleared will artificially increase the length of an already long campaign with little to no benefit to the player, and directly makes the game more boring as you're forced, or at best encouraged, to slog through places you've already been rather than going somewhere new and interesting.
The unfortunate truth is that adding more monsters, rather than being a detriment, is a boon to the player because XP and loot are limited resources in TOME. It would always be optimal to farm and that would suck all the fun out of much of the game.
Let slip the toast of war.
Re: going back to a previous area you didn't clean out prope
I play the game for fun, not to go around in a rushed manner to end it by becoming "The winner", so I don't agree with your remarks, sorry.
Re: going back to a previous area you didn't clean out prope
No, it would be absolutely terrible and also against one of the most basic rule of roguelikes "run away if you can't kill it"I was thinking it would be nice if you were forced to clean up each area before moving onwards.
There is already penalty to come back when your lvl is much higher than that of the enemies in that you get less or even no exp (and also shittier tier loot since the level was set when you first arrived).Something like if you moved onwards, there was a penalty on returning to an earlier area;
Uh, how does this force players to clear each area exactly?then I thought about it, and came up with, lets make it more realistic and make it be ((number of enemies left behind, raised to the power of your game difficulty, but at a higher level), plus enemies left behind).
Now, that would make it more fun.
lmao, yeah other people just play to suffer I'm sure. If you are making an idea thread then maybe consider having some other arguments than "I play for fun" in case you get some feedback.I play the game for fun, not to go around in a rushed manner to end it by becoming "The winner", so I don't agree with your remarks, sorry.
Re: going back to a previous area you didn't clean out prope
That is a bit harsh. While they weren't very clear about what they meant, you know that there are many different enjoyment styles for this sort of game.Mankeli wrote: lmao, yeah other people just play to suffer I'm sure. If you are making an idea thread then maybe consider having some other arguments than "I play for fun" in case you get some feedback.
My feedback meter decays into coding. Give me feedback and I make mods.
Re: going back to a previous area you didn't clean out prope
I mean, mobs could be rescaled up to the player's current level (or some other proportion if they're already above it--folks know what I mean) while keeping the XP value and drops of their original incarnations to avoid XP "farming." If, that is, a person actually wanted to do this at all. Personally, I agree that it's probably a bad idea mostly because, as others have said, a person skips mobs usually because they don't want to fight them. The reason for that could be that the mobs are currently too tough for them (zones out of order), or that they are just something they for other reasons will not want to fight (horrors, randbosses), or that they are in an area they are hurrying through and likely won't come back to (sandworm, maybe alt maze or dwarf start or the endgame).
So, really, you would either be punishing a person for deciding to run away from a fight (kind of a roguelike-y thing to do, I guess, but not very tome-y, if you get my drift), or not really punishing them at all because they're just straight outie and not looking back. It could come back to bite backup guardian hunters in the butt, I guess, but other than that would probably not affect how most people play the game.
I guess the OP was maybe wanting to give players a motivation to always completely clear areas? But, as has been said, it's tough to believe that players don't do that a majority of the time (on reasonable difficulties, at least). The game even tacitly encourages you to completely clear areas with its implementing of an autoexplore. By the time you're level 50 and have your endgame kit, if you're hurrying through areas it's probably endgame stuff you wouldn't ever come back to, anyhow.
I dunno. I don't really see the merit in encouraging players to completely clear areas. Most other roguelikes actively discourage players from hanging around exploring too much. Tome sort of already takes the diametrically opposite approach and instead discourages farming by having no or returns-diminished random mob spawns (as opposed to out-of-depth spawn timers or limited food or whatever).
So, really, you would either be punishing a person for deciding to run away from a fight (kind of a roguelike-y thing to do, I guess, but not very tome-y, if you get my drift), or not really punishing them at all because they're just straight outie and not looking back. It could come back to bite backup guardian hunters in the butt, I guess, but other than that would probably not affect how most people play the game.
I guess the OP was maybe wanting to give players a motivation to always completely clear areas? But, as has been said, it's tough to believe that players don't do that a majority of the time (on reasonable difficulties, at least). The game even tacitly encourages you to completely clear areas with its implementing of an autoexplore. By the time you're level 50 and have your endgame kit, if you're hurrying through areas it's probably endgame stuff you wouldn't ever come back to, anyhow.
I dunno. I don't really see the merit in encouraging players to completely clear areas. Most other roguelikes actively discourage players from hanging around exploring too much. Tome sort of already takes the diametrically opposite approach and instead discourages farming by having no or returns-diminished random mob spawns (as opposed to out-of-depth spawn timers or limited food or whatever).