Remove Tinker Classes From Rare-Pool

[Micbran]

That... sounds like a bug, unless I'm misunderstanding something.

[Shaidyn]

That... sounds like a bug, unless I'm misunderstanding something.

Yeah, that was my bad. I accidentally multiclicked when assinging talents!

[grobblewobble]

As a compromise, how about removing the tinker rares from the original campaign, but keeping them in the Orc campaign?

That would make sense from a lore POV, at least.

[Velorien]

That would make sense from a lore POV, at least.

That implies there is some way rares could ever make sense from a lore POV to begin with. So about those necromancer/sun paladin sandworms...

[Micbran]

That would make sense from a lore POV, at least.

That implies there is some way rares could ever make sense from a lore POV to begin with. So about those necromancer/sun paladin sandworms...

They took their classes at Angolwen and worked hard for that status, don't discriminate because of race.

[grobblewobble]

Necromancer sandworms are very common, just look at this holiday picture I took in Greece:

[HousePet]

Hey, isn't that the guy from the Arena?

[Jarinex]

I would rather have the rare steam mobs nerfed than removing them for lore reasons.

[Velorien]

Thanks to this thread, I had a dream last night in which I was being chased by a giant angry sandworm.

[Zeyphor]

Lots of steamguns (especially artifacts) already have poor range. Gunslinger isn't even that powerful of a player class so this nerf isn't a good idea. Player stuff shouldn't be nerfed just because enemies use them better.

did you notice that double shots, static shot, and trick shot have low damage multipliers?
that indicates that gunslingers would be OP if their talents didn't have low weapon damage on them

maybe you could just reduce by 40% the damage multiplier on all steamguns in the game, then multiply by 1.7 the bonus damage dealt by trick shot static shot double shot and awesome toss, and make their steamgun abilities also increase ranged mindstar damage dealt(by alot) so that mindstar damage is meaningful for non-caster psyshots and non-caster psyshots don't get meaningfully nerfed by the change; aren't they designed to want high cunning dex and will all at once anyway?

so for example, a white voratun steamgun would have a 60% damage multiplier on it, as opposed to a 100%(normal) damage multipler, but level 6.5 double shot would do ~131% weapon damage per bullet(instead of 77%+70%)
and the long-arm would only have a 150% damage multiplier instead of a 250% damage multiplier

for normal gunslinger attacks(shoot), they already get proc damage applied from both bullets, and they get bullet mastery too
across trick shot, double shots, static shot, tinker shells, awesome toss, vital shot, and other necessary actions that aren't the default shoot ability, well i think the default shoot ability not hitting as hard won't be such a problem, as gunslingers were already doing 200% bullet damage per shoot talent anyway(and would after that nerf be doing 60+60%), plus the extra proc damage

also I think that startling shot is fine for NPCs, given that a NPC could do 200%(100%+100%) damage the first turn with shoot, then 200% the second turn with shoot, or do 0% damage the first turn with startling shot, then do 421%(321%+100%) damage the second turn with shoot, and the damage multipliers from the talents that NPCs get aren't that notably high anyway, except awesome toss; and NPCs dont get vital shot or tinker shells

as for sawbutchers, just decrease the base power of steamsaws across the board and change saw wheels back to the original function, except doing damage based on physical power(like slam and roundhouse kick) instead of weapon damage, preventing tempest of metal from being triggered by saw wheels, simple as that
for skirmishers just reduce the damage bonuses from called shots and they can be unbanned too

there, now sawbutchers, gunslingers, and skirmishers can be rare mobs again without being OP, AND for player characters vital shot and tinker shells won't be OP for gunslingers or ogre psyshots
summoner rares are still OP on nm+ though

[bpat]

I don't see why every weapon talent has to have a high damage multiplier. I like how Dirty Fighting and Swap for instance have low/no damage and great utility. If the class is fine as a player, nerfing it just because of rares is silly.

[Zeyphor]

I don't see why every weapon talent has to have a high damage multiplier. I like how Dirty Fighting and Swap for instance have low/no damage and great utility. If the class is fine as a player, nerfing it just because of rares is silly.

well the point of nerfing damage while buffing talents was to try to nerf NPC gunslingers without nerfing PC gunslingers
the talents having a high damage multiplier compensates for the low power of the shoot talent, and if the talents have a low damage multiplier; it usually means the shoot/attack talent does alot of damage

also rogue wasn't designed the same way more recent class redesigns have been; dirty fighting is about the same as it was before 1.0.0
i dont even know when they made dirty fighting, but i think they designed the classes that used it way back when around normal difficulty; and now classes are getting redesigned for insane
gunslinger, on the other hand, was designed in 1.3.3 with a different(though in their case inconsistent) design philosophy; they're designed for insane difficulty

[ster]

I don't see why every weapon talent has to have a high damage multiplier. I like how Dirty Fighting and Swap for instance have low/no damage and great utility. If the class is fine as a player, nerfing it just because of rares is silly.

well the point of nerfing damage while buffing talents was to try to nerf NPC gunslingers without nerfing PC gunslingers
the talents having a high damage multiplier compensates for the low power of the shoot talent, and if the talents have a low damage multiplier; it usually means the shoot/attack talent does alot of damage

also rogue wasn't designed the same way more recent class redesigns have been; dirty fighting is about the same as it was before 1.0.0
i dont even know when they made dirty fighting, but i think they designed the classes that used it way back when around normal difficulty; and now classes are getting redesigned for insane
gunslinger, on the other hand, was designed in 1.3.3 with a different(though in their case inconsistent) design philosophy; they're designed for insane difficulty

given that every class can win insane and basically nothing is completely useless there (other than stealth lol) you might as well say they're all designed for insane

meanwhile i may be the only one but i don't find tinker rares to be too awful because things like armor and flat damage reduction have such a huge effect on the ability for (gunslinger/psyshot especially) them to kill you, and sawbutcher is melee only so other than the incredibly unlikely situation where you get pulled by a saw horror sawbutcher and 1 turned you should be able to at least escape, if not kite it. inner demons is a problem on psyshot but solipsist rares have been around forever....