How would You like Block to work?

[HousePet]

Currently Block reduces the next damage hit by a fixed amount; which is good if there is only one enemy, they only use one damage type in their attack, they only hit once and don't do more damage than your block amount. In reality its even less useful due to the 'which damage type can I block' complication.
Assuming that the damage types complication is removed (Shibari has confirmed that it wasn't supposed to be an inventory micromanagement minigame), I imagine that everyone thinks that blocking 1 damage hit is insufficient.
I am presenting three broad options for how to make Block more useful; numbers are not included, just assume they are sensible.

1: Use the Block amount as an effective short term Damage Shield. The Block effect negates all damage until the pool is expended or 1-2 turns have passed.

2: Use the Block amount to reduce all incoming damage by that amount for 1-2 turns. Think flat damage armour. This is sort of what happens with Eternal Guard at the moment, but expect the reduction amount not to reach the 300 mark...

3: Negate a certain number of damage hits, regardless of amount. Think Bone Shield.

Actual mechanics can be tuned later.

[Relic]

If I were doing this...

Passive (Stamina Reduction)
Counter Based (dex/10 max?) (like the counters for the brawlers extra attacks)
Flat Reduction (rand range based on tier and ego mods [1/2 one hand weapon tier ranges?], perhaps with critical defense roll doubling the amounts)
(if the flat reduction seemed too much in the end game, a small reduction to the calculation per defense could be added)

...but that is just my opinion.

[nsrr]

I would prefer Block to not be something you have to use. Blocking should be reactive, not proactive. Someone takes a swing at you, you raise your shield to deflect it. You don't put your shield up and then go, 'Okay, hit my shield, please!'

I have an idea similar to Relic's (assuming I'm understanding it correctly).

I'm thinking of a passive ability that functions like a combination of flat reduction and damage shield like mechanics, with a recharge like Deflection. Something along these lines:

''Any hit that would deal more than X%* of your max life will trigger a block, reducing the damage by (block value). You can deflect up to a maximum of (block limit) damage in a single turn. The maximum value will recharge at a rate of Y** per turn.''

*Probably somewhere around 5-8%, mostly to avoid having the absorb wasted on minor damage.
**I'm thinking somewhere around 1/10th of the block limit, or, perhaps, it should scale on block talent level.
Assume reasonable values for the block and block limit.
This would probably require a change to the Counter Strike mechanic. I would suggest something like 20% increased damage for each block, stacking up to a maximum of (block talent level) stacks per target.

[Tryble]

I think there's tons of ways to alter/improve block, here's a couple suggestions.

• Permanent block sustain that drains stamina - a sort of defensive counterpart to Berserker Rage
• Block value as chance to avoid all damage rather than damage mitigation, perhaps specifically targeting high-damage attacks - makes sense that the character would try specifically to defend against the most deadly attack
• Vastly increased damage mitigation at the cost of stamina damage (at some appropriate fraction)
• Make block a sustain that goes down on next hit, rather than 1 or 2 turn duration. Put up your guard and keep it up instead of setting your shield down after two seconds.
• Partial or instant turn activation.
• Auto-apply 'Off-Guard' (maybe a more potent version, 'reeling', or something) to anything blocked by your shield.
• Remove the CD.

To be honest, I feel that a reasonably good and reliable defense talent that does nothing else is valuable in and of itself - but we don't have a 'Defend' talent, so block has to do, I guess.
This is why I personally prefer Block as an activated talent rather than passive.

[Davion Fuxa]

In general I like how block sort of works right now. The ability to sort of open up your enemies for a devastating counter strike is a fun way of tactically playing the game. Intrinsically it is different from Bone Shield or Damage Shield in how it works. This is something I would enjoy being kept.

The problem is really due to Block not being all that useful without Riposte - and the fact that unless your shield blocks non-physical attacks, specifically of a type the enemy uses against you, you need to be fairly knowledgeable about enemies.

Going from the list posted, I wonder if the uniqueness that Block employs will be lost.

I can't see how a lot of what makes Block different can be kept with option 1: - essentially we just have a Non-Physical Damage Shield that will trigger Counter Strikes when enemies fail to break it. There might be some benefit to enemies/classes that have Damage Shield breaking capability (like Berserkers) but essentially it is just Shielding all the same.

Option 2: would perhaps make it easier to play with the Blocking ability so I'm more in favor of this change then option 1:, but I don't think a flat damage reduction would be that great and I think some of the tactical ability with counter strikes would be lost. However, I think this idea could perhaps lead to something that is different from Damage Shield or Bone Shield so it is better then the other two options. Counter strikes might also perhaps be up for being retooled in how they work with it too.

As for Option 3: I think it is little different from Option 1. Essentially it is a Non-Physical Bone Shield that will trigger Counter Strikes whenever enemies hit you. I think compared to Option 1 it is the worst one here.

I would prefer Block to not be something you have to use. Blocking should be reactive, not proactive. Someone takes a swing at you, you raise your shield to deflect it. You don't put your shield up and then go, 'Okay, hit my shield, please!'

I figured I'd point out this here: Buckler expertise (talent)

While I can sort of agree with what is said - I see the Block in game being more about letting an enemy attack you so that you can create and opportunity to attack an enemy. It is less of a defensive maneuver and more of a 'create opportunity' maneuver.

[StarKeep]

It was already done as a passive ages ago; I much prefer it being active compared to going back to those days of it just being 'rng the talent'.

[nsrr]

It was already done as a passive ages ago; I much prefer it being active compared to going back to those days of it just being 'rng the talent'.

Passive does not have to mean random.

I would not want it to involve RNG in any way, either. That is why I am not a fan of Buckler Training (besides the fact that it is only available to one class, not even to Adventurers, and only works for melee attacks).

I'm not sure if my explanation was not clear, but there was no randomness in what I proposed, just to clarify.

I've been trying to think of a way that block could work passively without RNG for a while, and this is the best I have come up with so far.

Either way, of the options presented, I would have to go with the first. The second essentially makes block better at low levels, but worse than it is now at higher levels, because if you are relying on block as a primary defense, you're likely going to take Eternal Guard anyway. The third option could easily leave your block charges wasted on puny amounts of damage from on-hit effects, DoTs, and the like.

[Zeyphor]

i still think block is fine in its current state
if anything else, it not only puts counterstrike on the enemy, but it lets you wait out healing/shielding cooldowns too, as well as blocking damage from anticipated big attacks such as assault or flurry or massive blow
and the prodigies make it even better, and are worth it as a stone warden, though i guess they wouldn't mind a few buffs via blocking buffs anyway
if you're gonna buff blocking, just make it take half a weapon speed turn and leave it at that imo

[HousePet]

Given that you already get passive bonuses for equipping a shield, it doesn't really make sense to have Block as another passive effect.

Zephyr: The current Block does not work against Assault or Flurry.

[Lyoncet]

I think we should distinguish between Block, the ability anyone gets from strapping a shield onto your arm, and abilities for classes that can specialize in shields (particularly Bulwark).

For strapping a shield onto your arm, I don't like the "Press a button to get a damage shield/bone shield" ideas, so from your list I'd go with #2. (Between damage shield and bone shield, I'd definitely prefer the latter; lots of damage shield effects out there; very few bone shields.) Perhaps reactive shielding along the lines of what nsrr suggested could replace the passive benefit. Hitting Block = "I'm spending extra effort intercepting your attacks," but even without that, you could also reflexively/opportunistically block or otherwise deflect/discourage some blows. Not the primary focus, but a nice benefit.

Alongside that, it would be great to add other shield mechanics to shield talents or classes specialized around shields. For example, maybe you could activate an ability that makes you forcefully deflect blocked attacks (rolling your Phys power vs. their Phys save, perhaps), giving the attacker a debuff to speed, accuracy, or damage. Or talents could unlock Absorb or Bone Shield modes to shield blocking – you're so adept at using your shield that you can completely nullify attacks that would overpower a less adept shield-user. Cool stuff like that, I think, makes more sense as talents than as part of the base Block ability. As do modes that drain Stamina, which not every class uses. Although that would be sweet on Bulwark.

Random thoughts:

• The idea of using blocking as an offensive ability seems totally off to me, and is one of the things I really don't like about its current implementation. Rather than Counterattacks/Riposte, I'd prefer things like debuff application or speeding up attacks against those you've blocked to lessen the opportunity cost of spending a turn not dealing damage.
• I really like the idea of shortening the Block cooldown and making it a minor stall ability, almost like mini-Temporal-Reprieve or something.
• Tryble's idea of making Block a short-CD sustain instead of a short effect sounds great, but making it collapse after the right amount of time may be tough.

[grobblewobble]

I would also like it much better as a passive defensive ability.

[Dopaminka]

If you want to change it to yet another generic damage shield or a physical torque then better leave it as it is
If anything, Block could be buffed to also proc passively, scaling with some stat and shield egos and not consuming a turn, while still having the active Block ability available for when you want to use it. Could also revamp the Shield Defense tree and add some built-in utility against non-physical damage types (but not in a way that would make Spectral Shield useless)
Thus I voted for option 4 ^^

[bpat]

Bone Shield style seems okay, but only if it doesn't break from tiny hits from stuff like spiked armor. Like a 20 damage hit should not be weighted the same as a 500 damage hit. Maybe the cutoff for counting the hit could be around 8% of your max life?

[Lyoncet]

If you want to change it to yet another generic damage shield or a physical torque then better leave it as it is
If anything, Block could be buffed to also proc passively, scaling with some stat and shield egos and not consuming a turn, while still having the active Block ability available for when you want to use it. Could also revamp the Shield Defense tree and add some built-in utility against non-physical damage types (but not in a way that would make Spectral Shield useless)
Thus I voted for option 4 ^^

This is quickly becoming my favored idea. Fully RNG is definitely not my favorite idea, but coupling a good passive "sometimes" deflection with an active ability for total focus on blocking/defense seems like a really strong idea. Strong gameplay-wise, not OP-wise.

(Also I agree with the rest of your post, so I quoted all of it and just bolded the part I like especially. )

[HousePet]

Any sort of passive proccing is unlikely to be a base feature of equipping a shield. As a talent it would work.
You already get passive effects via the stats on the shield.
The Block active is meant to be you actively hiding behind the shield, and should really be decent without talent or prodigy investment, but also shouldn't be complicated as anyone who can lift a shield can do it.