Radon26 wrote:i have coppied the talent from the wiki. "just no" seems like you didn't read it.
Did you read it? It literally does not do any mind damage whatsoever.
Since innate racial magic doesn't count as "spells" according to nature (see higher talents), and manaburn causes arcane damage, I think there's room for doomed to do arcane damage from pure willpower, rage, etc.
ok, nvm i guess i stopped at "...mental cry causing...".
hmm so there is not even that to say "damage are not bound t source".
but even if its not damage its still a mental efect...
that was the only thing going for his arguement and now i learn its not even true...
Err you criticised me for not raising it as a supporting argument.
I think you've lost the plot entirely here.
(I'm also puzzled that temporal damage is okay when the only place it exists outside of chronomancny/magic is one weapon ego.)
Anyway, arguing the finer points of whether Zigur attitudes should dictate class design is beyond the purpose of this thread.
My feedback meter decays into coding. Give me feedback and I make mods.
Given that shadows are allowed to use magic, I think the Ziguranth clearly accept magic being used in limited, controlled quantities.
(Either that or it's not in-universe considered spellcasting.)
Still, given Doomed are meant to be ex-mages, it makes perfect sense to use Arcane. Though... that does make me think you could do it as one locked tree which Is Spell and also Is Mind Power. Would use mind crits to synergise with the class, and probably still be WP based, but arcane damage would be cool there.
That might be a little outside the purview of a fix, which is what seems to be intended here, though.
Have made a quick addon to try out a self balancing hate bar: http://te4.org/games/addons/tome/hateexperiment
It makes your hate gravitate towards 50, at a rate dependent on how far away from 50 you are. Resting stops itself at about 40, so don't worry about it autoresting for ages.
Since this is a quick addon it also completely disables all hate regen from kills, including item bonuses.
My feedback meter decays into coding. Give me feedback and I make mods.
Personally I would retcon the ex-mage bit out. The mechanical stuff that used magic was stripped long ago. Either that or go all in and give them a few spells, making them a mindpower/spellpower hybrid and barring them from antimagic.
But I don't like this both ways stuff.
As far as temporal, it's on a nature powred ego. Time is not pure arcane damage and I'm sure Zigur knows the difference.
I feel they really need better mobility and tanking. They have to get almost as close as a melee class but they have no mobility or durability boosting skills.
Let's compare:
Archmages have good mobility from conveyance and excellent tanking from aegis, disruption shield, and time shield. They have a whole bunch of 10 range spells and some balls that can exceed that.
Anorthil lack mobility unless they were given the newer sun tree when I wasn't looking, but have some tanking from light. They have I think two 10 range spells counting a ball that gets there on radius.
Corruptors are kind of lacking in mobility, but at least they have dark portal and they have bone shield for tanking. They have a bunch of 10 range spells.
Solipsists have okay mobility with dream walk and solid tanking from solipsism and feedback. They have a few 10 range mindpowers, mostly in distortion and their other stuff has 7 range.
Oozemancers have pretty good mobility from slime roots and ooze walk and strong tanking from bloated oozes and fungus. They have a bunch of 10 range nature powers.
Paradox Mages have good mobility and tanking but I can't remember the tree and talent names at the moment. They have a bunch of 10 range spells.
Casting Mindlsayers have okay mobility from I think the tree is mobility and strong tanking from their shields. I think their range is 6 or 7 and they're intended to be run as hybrids anyways.
Casting Wyrmics have pretty good mobility from storm drake aspect and okay tanking from fungus. Their range starts at I think 5, but their acid beam gets to 7 IIRC and the breaths to 10. Also, they're intended to be run as hybrids.
Doomed have no mobility and I think get some late tanking from their shadows but I haven't run one far enough to see how it worked. I think they start without access to anything over 3 range.
Why are the long range casters given tanking and mobility options that put melee classes to shame while the nearly melee range doomed have none?
Digitochracy
n. 1. technocracy. 2. government by the numbers. 3. rule by people with the longest fingers.
For tanking, I could see sticking some sort of reactionary fade ability into the innate afflicted tree. That'd be a lot of fun, I think.
For mobility, swapping places with shadows seems obvious to me. Also maybe merging/rearranging some of the creeping darkness stuff so that you can get fairly good mobility from it for a few points.
Sweet! Doomed and Cursed getting some attention from major modders!
If the "used to be mages" angle is kept, Doomed could be a half-mindpower, half-spellpower mashup. That'd be fun and unique. Maybe if they're evil former demon-bargaining casters who got their magic stripped away by making bad Faustian bargains, they have mana-using talents (vim-using?) based on a locked tree. Or maybe the tree that gives them access to mana forces them into weird mana mechanics. So perhaps they can't use manasurge runes and their mana slowly depletes, but if they [steal a soul/eat an arcane-powered artifact/top out on Hate/kill an enemy/whatever] then they get a brief period of massive mana generation per turn and reduced cooldowns on the mana talents they'd seldom otherwise get to use.
I'd like to see the Darkness tree get some rework. I'd like to see something like Heightened Senses get built into the tree at level 1 as a side effect to that main talent, so that you don't screw up your own targeting. I think it'd be cool to have darkness follow you like a trailing cloud, in addition to being able to throw it around as an AoE (the way it works now), so you're really spreading it around even as a passive thing. Maybe the darkness effect could have a minor passive effect (the way it amplifies damage enemies take now) but also give you several other options. Maybe there's a low-cooldown targeted teleport that only works if you're already standing in darkness and teleporting to another space in darkness. Maybe there are activated abilities that, for example, pin and/or blind enemies, but only if they're already in your darkness (or apply DoT effects, or refresh the duration of debuffs, or harvest Hate and/or HP, or etc., or etc.). This way, Darkness gets to be more of a centerpiece to a certain kind of build and a certain kind of playstyle, because it opens up all those different tactical options.
If Doomed are going to stay as short-ranged caster classes, and stay so fragile, maybe there could be some kind of small (radius 2-3?) damage aura, so that getting to close range is as dangerous for the enemy as it is for the Doomed. Maybe they stay being super fragile by discouraging/deflecting attacks (darkness to disrupt LoS from ranged enemies, aura of [confusion/blindness/damage reduction/whatever] to disrupt melee enemies or anyone else who gets close. That way they still crumple like a Ponzi scheme if they take a hit, but are trying to misdirect enemies to prevent being hit.
I dunno, this is just turning into a stream of consciousness and I'm sure it's a mess, but I'm excited!
I like the fallen spellcaster idea, but... Arcane is just too magical. Darkness damage, physical damage, maybe cold damage? That's more of a necromancer thing... The fire/rage damage thing is interesting, but I definitely think it belongs on the guy that has rampage, Cursed. I like the full hate/zero hate thing, since it's easier to juggle your hate around as doomed it might fit it well. Maybe... Some talents are more powerful the less hate you have, while others are more powerful the other way around? Like the talents that are based off "fallen spellcaster" idea would be more powerful with less hate because you can "focus" more, while the generic mind power doomed ones would be more powerful with more hate. And maybe consume more hate?
Personally, I feel look shadows are pretty... Good? But doomed needs more mobility and the shadow switch thing is kinda cool. Maybe have three paths to go for? A shadow one, focused on dark damage and you also slowly make yourself into more of a shadow, and your shadows more like you. A "fallen spellcaster" one, focusing on cold and maybe fire damage? Doesn't sound solid enough to me. And finally, a hate focused one. Maybe an avatar of hate? Kinda like the Aether avatar? Also, have "fallen spellcaster" and the hate tree be like polar opposites, one focuses on bringing hate down, and the other focuses on keeping it high.
A little bit of a starters guide written by yours truly here.
I think the fallen mage mention in the class description was supposed to be removed. Personally I think it should go as it doesn't give anything useful to Doomed.
I have been thinking of a new class that is Doomed/Necromancer mechanics, but with a mage saw something horrific and went insane and the horrors won't stop following me, they are everywhere, wait are you working for them? flavour.
My feedback meter decays into coding. Give me feedback and I make mods.
HousePet wrote:I think the fallen mage mention in the class description was supposed to be removed. Personally I think it should go as it doesn't give anything useful to Doomed.
The problems with that are that shadows have spells and the guy who summons the shade that unlocks the class is a corruptor. Don't get me wrong, I think it's totally appropriate that Zigur attracts people driven by hatred, but shadow magic should be a deal breaker.
Digitochracy
n. 1. technocracy. 2. government by the numbers. 3. rule by people with the longest fingers.
Who cares what Zigur thinks?
It would be easy to make the shadows not use spells and some nutty cultist on the other side of the planet doesn't matter.
Anyone tried the altered Hate addon and have feedback?
My feedback meter decays into coding. Give me feedback and I make mods.
Shadows could be like hate driven thought forms. The manifestation of the doomed's inner rage (fire and lightning). They certainly don't need to be casters.
accordint to a "very reliable" source, (a.k.a fan fiction) they are the ghosts of their victims.
that doesn't necesarily have to be magic.
just like you can curse the items you find, you can also curse some souls binding them to you...
as for some of those ghosts being mages... well punishment? but magic is still magic. you allowing them to use it makes you the one responsible, therefore you have to be purged.
Last edited by Radon26 on Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
