Bulwarks have problems. Let's fix them!

[Calodine]

I played a skeleton bulwark through to 17. Halfway through the t2s.

Honestly, feels good. Real good. The extra stamina/survivability from flow of battle does wonders, and getting the block not ending on hit is a gamechanger. Last Stand was always good, but the pin killed it. Shield wall is just shield wall without penalty. Damage is still pretty bad without counterstrikes, but that's to be expected.

Elemental damage still hits like a truck. A very, very large truck. The lack of mobility unless you can kill something also still feels like a problem. The current tree already feels 5/5/5/5 worthy, though, so I don't want to add anything further to it.

I'd be more than willing to write this off as just being weaknesses of the class, since you can fix that first one with spectral shield and just have a somewhat weaker midgame, except you have to go quite far out of your way to get it.

One solution would be to swap out the defence on last stand for either flat or % block based damage reduction - This would be very, very strong with True Grit, but also very heavily stamina intensive and would functionally lock you out of using most of your abilities while active.

I need to cap/rescale Flow of Battle and I think Last Stand should be instant, but once Spectral Shield isn't required (But still should be a good option!) I think this is basically good to go. It feels really, really good up until casters show up and wreck your day.

[Delmuir]

I agree.

This add-on is a MASSIVE improvement to the Shield Defense category.

Two points, the block no longer ending on a hit nerfs the Eternal Guard prodigy. This does make it significantly less appealing as a prodigy.

My other point is that I'd like to suggest adding another element to one of the skills in the Last Stand, in addition to removing the stamina drain as it seems punitive:

On the first turn of every block, (or attack, whatever) the block-damage is increased by some %. Every turn thereafter, it would return to normal block amounts.

[HousePet]

Since the player is frequently outnumbered, you really need Block to last for more than one hit to make it effective.
Eternal Guard is more of a required prodigy than a nice addition.

[0player]

Eternal Guard is still the only way to get 100% block uptime. I think it's a reasonable power level for a prodigy.

[Delmuir]

The add-on shorts you one talent point. Normally, you start with shield pummel and shield wall with two free. Now, you only stat with pummel and two to go.

[Calodine]

Welp, that's my bad. I always have autoassign disabled so I never noticed it.

As for Last Stand - It has the stamina drain because otherwise you'd turn it on forever. It gives over a thousand hp. I'm really hesitant to increase block amounts, since that can end up with you becoming outright immortal - 500+ damage blocked from every hit, forever.

RE Eternal guard - It does make it less appealing, but it's still very much something to consider, because with a t5 shield you can be blocking forever. And there are other shield users

[Atarlost]

As long as the block enhancer is in a bulwark exclusive tree Eternal Guard will still be a prime choice for the other three classes that use shield offense. Vital Shot is only useful to three classes (archer, skirmisher, temporal warden). Aether Permeation is only useful to archmages. Actually, I think it's only even available to archmages. I think Mystical Cunning is only useful to rogues and archers. Temporal Form is only really useful to the two chronomancy classes. Mental Tyranny is only useful to solipsists. Tricks of the Trade is only useful to rogues and shadowblades. Even if the revised bulwark gets everything Eternal Guard gives from talents it still won't be in the bottom five prodigies so long as Shield Offense doesn't change.

Also, the Battle Tactics tree is Bulwark exclusive now I think. Buffing it is therefore another place for fixes. If bulwarks aren't doing enough damage I'd look at tweaking Greater Weapon Focus first.

[Calodine]

Marauders still get GWF.

Also, I should probably give an update, because I did a bunch of work today.

Flow of Battle has been split up - the stamina regen shifted over to Shield Expertise, and the miniblock on kill has been put on the talent that's replacing it.

Grand Slam, for want of a better name, is a short (3 tile) range giant leap that gets a 6 turn CD when maxed out (And is capped to not go below this so insane/madness players don't burst into tears when a Bulwark shows up). It does mid-high shield bash damage, and silences for a short duration in radius 1.

Short range, but this is a way to get out of a huge clump of dudes. Or, more importantly, THROUGH a huge clump of dudes to get to the guy slinging fireballs at your face, and then stop him teleporting away. It's also a great way to spend all that stamina you have if you aren't sustaining Last Stand and/or True Grit.

That was my solution to needing a new button, more ways to spend stamina, and ANY AOE WHATSOEVER. You ain't gonna clear crowds with it like Fearless Cleave, but it's something.
It's a silence because everything bulwarks do already runs off stun resist, confusion doesn't mesh well, and pin would be absolutely terrifying to play against. And silence as an effect is very much underutilised - there's like four, five talents total that use it.



The other half of the 'oh god casters why' solution is Last Stand. For one, it's now instant - This is now heroism tier EHP gain. It's also lost the defence, to make way for an effect similar to chant of fortress. Damage reduction based on range - up until range 6, it's worse than chant. PAST range 6, it gets much better. Up to a whopping 50% reduction at range 10+. Stamina drain had to go up, since this is really really good. It probably needs another downside, possibly even the return of the pin.

Toyed with a whole lot of different ideas for it, but this is the only one that was a) effective, b) not a better version of another ability (AM shield), and c) not completely ruinous to players on higher difficulties.

Unfortunately, by virtue of it not being an already existing effect, I haven't actually been able to finish it yet. Everything else works fine, And that autoassign problem is fixed, along with shield offence ignoring expertise.

So that's where we're at.

Here's the most current version, all done, with three notable problems: http://te4.org/games/addons/tome/newshield
1: Last Stand is lacking the damage reduction and will PROBABLY need a downside when it gets it. The stamina drain might well be enough though.
2: I'm still using replulsion's image because I cannot art.
3: I'm a dirty scrub and had to use overload so for some reason I can't fathom, this doesn't work with nullpack.

[Delmuir]

As long as the block enhancer is in a bulwark exclusive tree Eternal Guard will still be a prime choice for the other three classes that use shield offense. Vital Shot is only useful to three classes (archer, skirmisher, temporal warden). Aether Permeation is only useful to archmages. Actually, I think it's only even available to archmages. I think Mystical Cunning is only useful to rogues and archers. Temporal Form is only really useful to the two chronomancy classes. Mental Tyranny is only useful to solipsists. Tricks of the Trade is only useful to rogues and shadowblades. Even if the revised bulwark gets everything Eternal Guard gives from talents it still won't be in the bottom five prodigies so long as Shield Offense doesn't change.

I find this quote baffling. Yes, Eternal Guard isn't garbage… I don't recall saying it was. I just wanted to make not of that in case it had been overlooked.

Aether Permeation is available to any class that hits the void of space. I believe that includes the demon-plane but I'm not sure.

Temporal Form if a free damage boost to any class. It's one of the most universal prodigies, in terms of utility.

Mental Tyranny is amazing for a number of classes… I use it most with Doomed, but it's certainly useful for more than the one.

Calodine,

As to your points… they all make sense to me. I'm not great with Bulwarks as I hardly ever use them. I'm optimistic that you can significantly improve them.

Nice work!

[Delmuir]

Grand Slam, for want of a better name, is a short (3 tile) range giant leap that gets a 6 turn CD when maxed out (And is capped to not go below this so insane/madness players don't burst into tears when a Bulwark shows up). It does mid-high shield bash damage, and silences for a short duration in radius 1.

Short range, but this is a way to get out of a huge clump of dudes. Or, more importantly, THROUGH a huge clump of dudes to get to the guy slinging fireballs at your face, and then stop him teleporting away. It's also a great way to spend all that stamina you have if you aren't sustaining Last Stand and/or True Grit.

That was my solution to needing a new button, more ways to spend stamina, and ANY AOE WHATSOEVER. You ain't gonna clear crowds with it like Fearless Cleave, but it's something.
It's a silence because everything bulwarks do already runs off stun resist, confusion doesn't mesh well, and pin would be absolutely terrifying to play against. And silence as an effect is very much underutilised - there's like four, five talents total that use it.

Grand Slam… I've been playing with this and my immediate thought is that it's OP and just has the wrong thematic feel to me as the extra mobility on a heavily armored warrior just strikes me as odd.

If I may, I'd like to indulge in an alternative that I think might solve some of the same problems you listed as justification for this talent:

Impale/meat shield.

This skill is a two-hit combo… slams the enemies head with your shield for 20% shield damage and then impales them on your sword for 50% weapon damage.

For the next 2 complete turns, you carry the impaled enemy around like a second shield. They absorb 30% of all incoming melee damage and 50% of all ranged damage.

The enemy cannot do anything except use infusions or runes. If they're still alive after the impaling is over, they're free but will suffer significant bleeding damage.

Enemies 1 size category smaller can be carried for 1 additional turn but are 50% less effective at reducing damage.

Enemies 1 size category larger can be carried for 1 less turn at 50% greater effectiveness.

Enemies 2 or more size categories larger cannot be carried. They only suffer the initial strike and reduced bleeding damage.

For that same duration, you cannot use your sword to inflict damage… no bump attacks or skills, and you move at 50% speed but can still use teleportation runes, etc., although teleportation breaks the impale effect. Shield attacks, spells, etc., will still work.

Lastly, any enemy that witnesses this must save or suffer a 50% reduction in attack speed for 2 turns as they're intimidated. They can still move, i.e. run, but they're hesitant to attack.

I figure 22 stamina and an 16 cool-down.

To me, this is a nifty, gruesome, brutal, and yet still defensively oriented talent… only effective in melee range. It's thematic and helps address the problem of getting nuked from a distance. More so, the intimidation/speed penalty isn't quite an AOE in the classic sense, but it should have a nice effect.

I humbly ask that you consider this in place of Grand Slam but it's probably best in the 3rd slot.

[supermini]

Grand Slam… I've been playing with this and my immediate thought is that it's OP and just has the wrong thematic feel, to me as the extra mobility on a heavily armored warrior just strikes me as odd.

You mean like rush?

If I may, I'd like to indulge in an alternative that I think might solve some of the same problems you listed as justification for this talent:

...
The enemy cannot do anything except use infusions or runes.

How do you consider silence to be OP but an even stronger shut-down to be fine? This won't be fun to play against.

Your talent idea is very elaborate, and bulwark needs to have straightforward abilities. It's a class that is by design intended to be simple to play.

[supermini]

Grand Slam, for want of a better name, is a short (3 tile) range giant leap that gets a 6 turn CD when maxed out (And is capped to not go below this so insane/madness players don't burst into tears when a Bulwark shows up). It does mid-high shield bash damage, and silences for a short duration in radius 1.

I would change this into a single target attack, not AOE. Thematically, bulwark is a single target attacker.

[Delmuir]

Supermini… good questions!

On your point about Rush… yeah, I don't like that skill either but no one would listen if I suggested getting rid of it, ha ha.

As to an even more powerful and complex skill…

Yes, my description is complicated but I don't think it would play complicated. It's just a rough description. I'm sure it could be streamlined significantly. I just wanted the concept of picking an enemy to block ranged damage and then close the distance, might work. The details are… incidental.

I do not think it's MORE powerful than an AOE silence, combined with a rush.

Admittedly, it would not be a fun skill to play against, as a melee character… it would make those dazes and stuns more significant. It would also make distance a major factor against a Bulwark and that's actually my preferred goal.

I legitimately think that Bulwarks should be frightening at close-range. They're not… at least not for most classes.

Either way, I like the idea even sans polish… if you don't, no worries.

[Zonk]

I agree Rush is very odd, I mean, it's basically a teleport with some limitations but moving so many squares insantly doesn't really 'work' for me as a basic fighter talent.

If it had to be changed so it 'made sense', I'd have something like:

1)You activate the power and move one step in a direction (I mean, the talent moves you one step when you activate it)
2)You keep moving in that direction and gain a 'Momentum' timed effect which gives a growing movement speed and damage speed (and a chance of dazing on hit). If you do something other than moving in that direction with your turn the bonus decreases, and it goes to 0 if you move in the opposite direction from when you started to rush. If the counter goes to 0 you lose the Rush effect.
3)When you make an attack, you benefit from the momentum gathered (again, damage bonus and chance to daze) AND YOU LOSE THE EFFECT.

Rush TL would affect the numbers and bonuses, like it does now, and gives more tolerance for things like changing direction and so on.

Thoughts? Too complicated? Maybe, but I think it both makes more sense AND it's more tactically inteesting than what it is now.
Might be an issue if the AI has a problem handling it, though.

EDIT Another issue might be that the way I wrote it, it can also be used to move away from the enemies...but it's obviously not meant to replace or act like Disengage

[malboro_urchin]

I think that the above idea would be way too complicated for a new player. I've been playing for a while now, but I still barely understand how speed works, and I have no way of knowing how varying speeds end up affecting which unit gets a turn when. Rush is simple and it works, because it doesn't mess around with speed. What you see is what you get.