Weapon Swap to counter Disarm

[HousePet]

Make it so that you can use quick swap to bypass the disarm effect.
This shouldn't remove the effect, but it should make disarm only apply to a particular weapon.

[Davion Fuxa]

So it would be something like 'Disarm: Main Hand' or 'Disarm: Off Hand'? I'd be for such a change, it would make the Off Slot have more use even on classes that don't specialize in two sets of weapons.

[Suslik]

Very interesting indeed. Way better than those suggestions like "five 70% passive disarm resistance to all melees".

[Fortescue]

I agree this is a good suggestion to help make an under-utilized feature more important.

[Orangeflame]

+1

[grayswandir]

I don't like it.

[Doctornull]

Weapon swapping is an inconsistent cost.

Sometimes it's free, sometimes you must pay a turn.

I think the basic idea has some merit, but the way swapping works now isn't suitable.

[Atarlost]

Weapon swapping is an inconsistent cost.

Sometimes it's free, sometimes you must pay a turn.

I think the basic idea has some merit, but the way swapping works now isn't suitable.

This just makes temporal wardens and maybe paradox mages more disarm resistant, not that paradox mages care much about it anyways. Just like archmages or solipsists or, gosh, almost all primarily casting builds who lose some boosts off their staves or mindstars but apart from some oozemancer and alchemist options don't lose access to their talents. And brawlers are completely immune.

The only way to make disarm fair is to completely remove it. If it's going to be kept in sweating a difference in mitigation speed for one class (because the items that give fast swap are, to my knowledge, all weapons and therefore would be disarmed isn't worth worrying about.

[edge2054]

There's also a prodigy to consider. Not that many people take it anyway so it might make it more valuable.

Warden weapon swap mechanics are changing for 1.3 though I think they'll still be able to break disarm without costing a turn if this mechanic went live. Paradox Mages won't have free swap anymore, not that it really matters for the sake of this discussion.

[Atarlost]

There's also a prodigy to consider. Not that many people take it anyway so it might make it more valuable.

Warden weapon swap mechanics are changing for 1.3 though I think they'll still be able to break disarm without costing a turn if this mechanic went live. Paradox Mages won't have free swap anymore, not that it really matters for the sake of this discussion.

If people are taking a prodigy to be able to negate disarm without an action (but still dropping to their second best weapon set) then disarm is far too powerful. Since it doesn't make sense for it to do anything but what it does now it should be removed if making weapon swap clear it pushes people to that prodigy who weren't already going to charm juggle with it.

[edge2054]

I'm not going to argue rather or not disarm should be removed with you. If it's far too powerful than so is silence. But I don't believe that's a discussion for this thread.

As to the merits of HousePet's idea (i.e. the topic of this thread) I think it does have some merit but that DoctorNull makes a valid point. The prodigy and Celerity would allow you to instantly break disarm. There's also a dagger that lets you quick swap but you'd need to have it equipped for the free action disarm break. But I don't think either one of these is that big of a concern with how HousePet proposed things. If it just broke disarm outright that would be a different story.

I think that recoding it so it's smarter (only applies to weapons you had equipped when disarm was applied) is going to be a PITA. But if HousePet or someone else is volunteering to do the grunt work I think it it's an interesting idea and one worth discussing.

[Atarlost]

I'm not going to argue rather or not disarm should be removed with you. If it's far too powerful than so is silence. But I don't believe that's a discussion for this thread.

As to the merits of HousePet's idea (i.e. the topic of this thread) I think it does have some merit but that DoctorNull makes a valid point. The prodigy and Celerity would allow you to instantly break disarm. There's also a dagger that lets you quick swap but you'd need to have it equipped for the free action disarm break. But I don't think either one of these is that big of a concern with how HousePet proposed things. If it just broke disarm outright that would be a different story.

I think that recoding it so it's smarter (only applies to weapons you had equipped when disarm was applied) is going to be a PITA. But if HousePet or someone else is volunteering to do the grunt work I think it it's an interesting idea and one worth discussing.

There are three possibilities:

• Disarm needs to go because it effects different classes too disproportionately.
• Disarm is fine as is.
• Disarm is not fine as is, but would be fine if weapon swapping cleared it.

Having seen this suggestion I think I'm actually partial to the third.

If the weapon swap solution is unacceptable because it effects different classes or prodigies too disproportionately the only remaining possibility is that disarm is too unbalanced to be allowed to exist because if disarm was fine as disproportionate as it is now the far less disproportionate case produced by differences in weapon swap speeds would also be fine. The effect of disarm no people who can swap sets instantly would still be less than the effect of disarm on brawlers.

[edge2054]

Well that's fair. I just read into your first response about Disarm being too powerful.

I personally feel that disarm is fine, maybe a bit too common now that it shows up on Acid Wave but that's more my feelings about Acid Wave then disarm itself.

That said I think HousePet's suggestion is interesting, that it makes sense thematically, and that it wouldn't break game balance.

[Doctornull]

How about a compromise? Swapping weapon TYPE (melee / ranged) ignores the disarm type you were initially hit with.

This incentivizes hybrid "skirmisher" builds rather than rewarding mono-focus.

So basically, split Disarm into Melee Disarm / Ranged Disarm. Each condition applies only to that one weapon type.

This still rewards e.g. Temporal Wardens, but only if they actually do the split-skirmisher thing rather than just swapping between two bows, or two pairs of knives.

It also rewards Archers for having a back-up melee weapon, and that's not a bad thing.

[emblempride]

How about a compromise? Swapping weapon TYPE (melee / ranged) ignores the disarm type you were initially hit with.

This incentivizes hybrid "skirmisher" builds rather than rewarding mono-focus.

So basically, split Disarm into Melee Disarm / Ranged Disarm. Each condition applies only to that one weapon type.

This still rewards e.g. Temporal Wardens, but only if they actually do the split-skirmisher thing rather than just swapping between two bows, or two pairs of knives.

It also rewards Archers for having a back-up melee weapon, and that's not a bad thing.

This doesn't solve the issue though, now you just have to put a bow on a Berserker for when you get hit by one status effect. As Atarlost mentioned, Disarm does nothing to Brawlers. Nothing imbalanced at all about adding TWs and dagger users who can find a pair with the quickswap ego on them to that list. 4 entire class categories are mostly unaffected by Silence, but that's never been a problem. With HousePet's idea, all except TW's and Brawlers will still be forced to give up a turn and use an inferior weapon, that's already a fair enough compromise imo.