Comprehensive Mindslayer rework

[Suslik]

i see your point. while i mostly agree with you i have to disagree with augmentation being useless. on the contrary, it's very useful for putting high-tier gear and skills on. it's just cheesy and somewhat abusive. even if i play mindstars on everything than can get to zigur i agree that making conventional weapons viable is one of priorities of this mindslayer rework.

i think we have plenty of skills that are far too useless as is(mentioned numerous times above) and that can be reconfigured to make conventional weapons viable both as TK and as weilded.

[Melkhior]

The fun thing is that if you find high tier gem early than it has much better effect to your stats than augmentation.
I found today 4 tier jade early in infint. dungeon and it was much better to use it instead of telekinetically wielded weapon.

gain: +16 to all stats, more damage from aura and mindslayers meelee talents, Much more live, strenght higher then with maxed Augmetation.
loss: a litlle bit of damage from telekin. wielded weapon.

My char is on level 8 and stats with augmentation (add 7 to str and 6 to dex) and gem

str 39(11)
dex 38(10)
con 30(13)
mag 24(10)
wil 44(27)
cun 40(24)¨

And don't forget resonant focus that boost stats from gem even more

And that's from my point of view even more problematic than how augmentation works

[Doctornull]

The fun thing is that if you find high tier gem early than it has much better effect to your stats than augmentation.
I found today 4 tier jade early in infint. dungeon and it was much better to use it instead of telekinetically wielded weapon.

The best part, of course, is that it effectively eclipses Augmentation in terms of cheesing out talent and gear requirements.

With a Diamond you can get +25 to every stat during that crucial time you spend on the level-up screen and the armor-equipping screen.

[HousePet]

How about we move the all weapon using wil/cun instead of str/dex from Beyond the Flesh and put it on Augmentation?

Then it becomes a simple choice about whether you are building str/dex or not.

If you are building str/dex, you don't use it.
If you aren't building str/dex, Augmentation gives you the stats to help with equip requirements and makes your melee attacks scale with str/dex.

[Melkhior]

Maybe,
or we cvan make it basic characteristic of mindslayer. All weapons will use willpower and cunning instead of strenght and dex and mindslayer can ignore strenght requirments. Even if it means that mindslayer lose access to weapon mastery and armour mastery ( with resheape it isn't that big problem - maybe add that at level 3 resheape allow wearing reasheaped heavy armor? edit: or simply mindslayer will use only light armour)

And then we can add new skill for meelee mindslayer instead of augmentation.

edit2: I am also missing access to mindstar (or gem) at the beginning of game, when I choose how to play mindslayer. So why not add set of basing mindstar to them?

[Doctornull]

If you are building str/dex, you don't use it.

What talents do you recommend for someone building Str/Dex?

Mindslayer talents specifically.

I honestly don't see a Str/Dex build being possible, but you hopefully know better.

[HousePet]

All the strike talents.

[Melkhior]

Ok, but it will create another problem. With some talents scaleing with str/dex and some will/cun player have to invest almost to all stats (str build with auras - invest in str/dex/will/con, need also shields add even cun).

So we will have another arcane blade - really hard to play meelee class and I think everybody will rather choose to play mindslayer as a caster class and we will be at the same situation as before changes.

[HousePet]

Well you don't really need to build Dex. You can get the accuracy from Combat Accuracy and you can get Reshape too.
Sword and Board or Two Handed weapon wielder doesn't need anything else from Dex. (You can Reshape shields.)
And you never really need Con.

So Str/Wil/Cun is all you need and you can max out three stats.

Which boils it down to, Do you want to build Str?

[Melkhior]

Ok, I understand, i counted dex mainly, because that augmentation right now add also to dex and I forget that I really don't need it (maybe only exception dual wielding daggers).

Even then I will not probably build str, because right now you can boost str enought with telekinetically wielded gem and resonant focus to overcome str requirments for weapon mastery and armour mastery, then put on armour and weapon you like and after thet exchange gem with weapon or whatever you need. This strategy will be usefull even with the change that strikes scale with str. Only change will be that you will use gem all the time.

Also we would need add another talent tree with strenght abilities and I think mindslayer has enought talent trees (New Telekinetic Combat included - probably str tree with your proposed change? - 2 str trees aren't enoght to consider investment in str).

[Suslik]

Ok, problems we solved with this rework:
+ Defenses are now way more interesting though I still insist on 120 max damage blocking and 70% max percentage instead of current 100/80 because 80% is really OP against DoT's.
+ Class has become far more varied to play with this ton of abilities.
+ Any TK weapon is viable. Heavy 2-handers work surprisingly well.
+ Class has very interesting new tactical options like the new version of impale and deflect projectiles.

Problems that yet to be solved:
- Aura spiking is not viable after lvl5-10 when you have enough skills to rotate them.
- Going conventional weapons is still inferior to going minstars because 3 mediocre attacks with 10cd are not nearly as useful as focus tree. Probably it's useful to make these attacks synergetic(reduce their cooldown, make casting reduce some other cooldowns, not sure really). And rethink the way you acquire your weapon mastery(we don't want to encourage augmentation juggling, do we?) and think about the way you're gonna fight as a melee mindslayer, because rotating those 3 abilities only is painful.
- Some skills still need rework. Quick as though with its useless attack speed. Telekinetic throw being mostly useless because you generally want to pull someone to you instead of pushing away. Frenzied focus being not worth 35+ psi and 1 turn to cast. Heat shift is meh and expensive. Static net looks like a very interesting ability but its numbers are off. Lightning bonus damage is not worth going on it to charge.

[Doctornull]

All the strike talents.

The Strike talents seem to work really REALLY well with Psiblades.

How does a Str/Dex focus help with those?

Sorry if I'm missing something obvious.

[HousePet]

You are missing that Undead can't use Psiblades and that some people want to use conventional weapons.
But other than that, you are just trolling.

[Doctornull]

You are missing that Undead can't use Psiblades and that some people want to use conventional weapons.
But other than that, you are just trolling.

Translation: "there is no good reason for Str/Dex and everyone knows it and nobody else cares".

Understood, thanks for the answer.

[supermini]

I wouldn't say Str and Dex are not useful, even with using wil and cun for weapons.

Dex gives accuracy (and high accuracy gives bonuses now), and crit reduction already makes it the best defensive stat.
Str gives physical power and phys save, for what it's worth.
I don't see how that's useless.

Whether or not the talent itself is a good use of points is a different debate.