Making the Breeding Pits Less Disgusting

[evouga]

I don't see a problem with the zone.

I personally consider myself morally obligated to go into the zone and stop the suffering and horrible experiments going on in there. Trying to preserve their race is obviously a reasonable goal, but the orcs crossed the line and paid far too high a price.

That reasonable people can disagree with me, I consider a very big plus, not a minus, for the game.

Regarding:
- Content is too controversial for kids playing the game: I'm not seeing how this area is that much worse than the sexual/depraved content elsewhere. I certainly don't mind turning off the zone in "clean mode" though.
- Pornographic flavor text: Yeah, the flavor text (*NOT* the lore, which is excellent) is a bit over the top and could be toned down. I'd hardly call it pornographic, though. If you're getting off to that shit I don't think TOME is the problem :-/
- "Genocide" achievement: meh. If anything I think it's OK to twist the knife a bit for those people who had misgivings about going in to the area but forged ahead anyway. If you're desperate for exp and loot you can find better of both in a farportal.

My biggest problem with the area is the gameplay: it's long, boring as hell, the dungeon layout is *incredibly* annoying (thank god for autoexplore), and nothing is a threat except the guards at the entrance, the boss at the bottom, and any elites you might encounter on the way.

[Grey]

I'll add an alternate zone that makes it a little less gross that activates with the censor option.

Won't this just mean 99% of players will never see it? Might as well cut it from the game then. I'd rather work to make the zone more palatable in its current state.

[Razakai]

Won't this just mean 99% of players will never see it? Might as well cut it from the game then. I'd rather work to make the zone more palatable in its current state.

Agreed. The simplest and lowest effort thing would just be reworking the description and model of the mothers, and possibly removing the orc babies. That'd solve the majority of the issues without causing any real loss of tone.

[Grey]

How about changing the description of the mothers and making the babies non-aggressive? There's no need for the player to fight them then, except to more easily wade through to the targets if they wish to be so sick. And that's on top of the proposed dialogue to trigger the encounter, making it more obvious that there are difficult choices ahead.

[evouga]

I like the idea of making the babies blue-border. It's not like they're that much of a combat threat currently, anyway.

[jotwebe]

It's an interesting idea. You'd need to avoid AoE (well, if you care about not killing babies) and there could be an achievement akin to Thrall-less.

[tiger_eye]

How is killing defenseless babies any better? Tweaking the description of the mothers and adding the random encounter dialogue should be plenty imho.

[Grakor456]

How is killing defenseless babies any better?

Ideally, if they were blue-border you wouldn't be killing them. Though the orc children should also probably be given similar treatment. Since they're the majority of the enemies are those two critters, though, some more standard orcs might be needed to make the zone more challenging. And of course the mother's combat gimmick would need changing.

...in a way, this could leave the zone -more- horrifying if you think about it. You're stomping in a zone with defenseless children and murder their parents before their eyes. Perhaps best not to think about this implying you're probably leaving them behind to starve to death.

[The Revanchist]

Do we get to keep the Genocide achievement, then? Because it still fits...

I would think that having some grownup Orcs would be pretty essential, although they could be akin to daycare workers, if we want a non-hostile reason for their presence.

[SageAcrin]

The Genocide achievement is about ending the advancement of the Orc race as a species, or at least trying to.

If you do something that triggers that, you should get the achievement, and not if not. Killing babies is tacky, but not genocide. (Tacky is the nicest word I can think of for it. )

[Grey]

Indeed, the kids are there for decoration.

Adding more of a challenge to the area seems pointless to me. It's not meant to be about exciting gameplay. Making it a boring, challengeless slog is better in a way.

Currently the description of the mothers/greatmothers is the following:

Mother
This giant, bloated form towers above you. Mucus and slime ooze from every orifice, dripping onto the cavern floor. Orc children fight over the right to feed from her distended teats whilst small babies are regularly pushed out from her many pulsating vulvas. The sight and the smell make you retch.

Greatmother
Here stands a tremendous form almost the size of a dragon. Bloated skin rises in thick folds, seeping viscous slime from its wide pores. Hundreds of hanging teats feed a small army of squabbling, fighting young orcs - only the toughest of them are able to gain the precious nutrients to grow stronger, the weaker ones left to wither on the mouldy floor. Dozens of gaping vulvae squelch and pulsate, pushing out new young with alarming rapidity. At the top of this towering hulk is a shrivelled head coated in long tangled hair. Dazed eyes peer out with a mixture of sadness and pain, but as they fix on you they turn to anger, the creature's face contorted with the fierce desire to protect its young.

Delightful, yes? Note how the greatmother is never referred to as "she"? How deliberately dehumanising the text is? Yet I get accused of writing this with one hand :-/

Anyway, I suggest changing to the following:

Mother
This giant, bloated form towers above you. Mucus and slime ooze from every orifice, dripping onto the cavern floor. Orc children fight over the right to feed from her distended teats whilst small babies are regularly emerge from folds of flesh. The sight and the smell make you retch.

Greatmother
Here stands a tremendous form almost the size of a dragon. Bloated skin rises in thick folds, seeping viscous slime from its wide pores. Hundreds of hanging teats feed a small army of squabbling, fighting young orcs - only the toughest of them are able to gain the precious nutrients to grow stronger, the weaker ones left to wither on the mouldy floor. At the top of this towering hulk is a shrivelled head coated in long tangled hair. Dazed eyes peer out with a mixture of sadness and pain, but as they fix on you they turn to anger, the creature's face contorted with the fierce desire to protect its young.

Essentially removing the description of the sexual organs, which I think is what people are most unhappy with. That + non-hostile babies + no item drops + clearer dialogue before entering the zone should hopefully help the situation.

Thoughts?

[PureQuestion]

Note how the greatmother is never referred to as "she"?

Considerable use of "her", which is mostly similar.

[The Revanchist]

"It", then?

I like the changes. They should quiet the dissenters.

[Grey]

Note how the greatmother is never referred to as "she"?

Considerable use of "her", which is mostly similar.

I should have made it clearer - the first description was for the mothers, the second for the greatmother's. It's the greatmother's descriptions that there is a lack of she/her/etc.

[evouga]

This giant, bloated form towers above you. Mucus and slime ooze from every orifice, dripping onto the cavern floor. Orc children fight over the right to feed from her distended teats whilst small babies are regularly emerge from folds of flesh. The sight and the smell make you retch.

Note this has a typo -- a stray "are."