Gods!

[aynama]

Hm. Like I just like to say I haven't played the game through once yet.
So I don't know for sure.
But I think there are no Gods?
Like in the older generation of roguelikes, some of them had the player pick a god.
And it could be offered items, or you could pray...
There were altars in the dungeons that could be used.

How about it?

[stinkstink]

The gods are a little preoccupied being dead/digging holes/living in a void to answer any prayers, sadly.

[Doctornull]

But I think there are no Gods?

There were gods.

They're dead now.

[Grey]

Bad things happened to them. Very bad things :-/

[darkgod]

Yes, poor gods :/

[Waladil]

There are but two True Gods and they are RNG God and DarkGod. All shall worship and revere the Gods of Random and Creation, and to the RNG they shall sacrifice dice rolls and to Dark they shall tithe their money. Let us meditate on the two.

[darkgod]

Hehe

As to the point, I'd even go further and say that the concept of gods is completely alien to 99.99% of Eyal's denizens; they've never heard about them, and whatever happened, happened so they have no way of knowing

[The Revanchist]

As to the point, I'd even go further and say that the concept of gods is completely alien to 99.99% of Eyal's denizens; they've never heard about them, and whatever happened, happened so they have no way of knowing

Is that because they don't care, or are they just too stunted to really comprehend the idea?

Doesn't something about Gods come up in the mid-late game? Lore, especially...

[parcel]

I don't doubt that they understand the concept of gods. It's just that they don't hunger for a religious explanation in terms of god-people. Surely they do have some aspect of religious impulse within their societies, and the learned have access to words that are attributed to the first-born person in all the world. However, a few things have probably changed the way they respond to religious claims based in devotion to a really powerful being, or a collection of powerful beings.

First, the Age of Allure was a particularly cosmopolitan time. There's a big difference between the magical technologies of that civilization and the industrial technologies of our world. The ability to move the world and advance society and benefit the self were all based on the manipulations of one's own spirit. Spiritualist religious practices thus had a very concrete basis in their society, and were also interesting enough to satisfy a craving for salvation -- to better yourself, you study magic, and to live without fear of death, you learn the way of the archmagi. Monsters abounded then as now. So there were plenty of strange and mysterious things with minds that actually existed as explanations for how the world works. Thus there was no strong movement to think of the world as the creation of a very big mind, though that was one of the philosophical positions that were around in the discourse of the times and traces of it survive to this day. A major religious movement of contemporary ME is the worship of nature. Here the people clearly understand that nature is not a person, and does not have a rational mind as we do. This is part of what is awesome and terrifying about it, and why people respect it so.

Another reason for the rejection of gods is because of the fallout of the Age of Allure. The highest archmagi were essentially kinds of gods, ruling the world through various councils, servants, and personal jealousies. But after the Spellblaze, admiration of these perfected magical talents turned to revulsion. The idea of human-like beings/minds with god-like powers is not appealing to them; experience has told them that this sort of situation is anti-salvitic. So when they hope for a system of salvation that extends in some way from phenemona that they know in the world-as-it-is, they don't invoke really powerful persons as the mechanism supplying stability, hope, and salvation. Generally speaking the religions of ME are based more around pervasive forces and idealized ethical principles, rather than god-people. They could understand a religious system that bases its explanations around a god-mind or several god-people, but it's just not appealing to them. It's not perverse to them, outright; it's just not something that they feel to be desirable or plausible; the metaphor doesn't quite fit. In an environment where belief in gods is already quite rare, this conceptual frame helps to keep these views to the cultural periphery.

[Sirrocco]

Worth noting that in game there are a fair number of people who...
- Serve nature and revere natural forces (Wilders and Zig, primarily)
- Revere the blight and serve demonic forces (the corrupters and their little cult)
- derive something akin to a religious experience from their interactions with celestial forces (probably most of the inhabitants of the sunwall, to a greater or lesser degree)
- are devoted to the preservation of the time stream - not a religion, per se, but it fills many of the same "serve somethign greater than self" impulses (Temporal Wardens)

It's by no means everyone, but there are certainly outlets in the world for those who feel inclined towards religious experience

[Doctornull]

Worth noting that in game there are a fair number of people who...
- Serve nature and revere natural forces (Wilders and Zig, primarily)
- Revere the blight and serve demonic forces (the corrupters and their little cult)
- derive something akin to a religious experience from their interactions with celestial forces (probably most of the inhabitants of the sunwall, to a greater or lesser degree)
- are devoted to the preservation of the time stream - not a religion, per se, but it fills many of the same "serve somethign greater than self" impulses (Temporal Wardens)

It's by no means everyone, but there are certainly outlets in the world for those who feel inclined towards religious experience

The urge to serve something larger than yourself isn't necessarily a religious urge.

It's similar to how one might owe fealty to one's liege lord, honor to one's family, service to one's national military or (in modern times) feel loyalty to one's employer. All of those are "greater than self", but none of them are particularly religious.

Basically what I'm saying is: loyalty doesn't imply religion, even if some religions do try hard to instill loyalty.

[The Revanchist]

The Zigur, Wilders, Corruptors and Sunwall fit pretty well though. In that "happy?" Little bunch, would not the Corruptors fit a "God-Worshiping" description the best? Or are the demon-worshipers a different breed?

What about Linaniil? Does she get revered as a God by the people of Angolwen?

While I'm asking so many questions, do the Orcs ever allude to worship of higher beings, or are they more of a "follow the guy that can best kill me" mentality?

[Grey]

Corruptors don't worship demons, they use their powers to their own ends.

Linaniil is not treated as a god, but certainly with extreme reverence and respect (and fear).

As for the orcs, they believe in community actions and racial pride, and in particular they remember strongly the memory of Garkul, their greatest hero. No religion though.

One thing to remember in Maj'Eyal is that with so many individuals of power and mystical abilities going around, you don't need any extra pretend religious stuff. You deal with what's in front of you. In the real world we invent superstitions around things that don't exist, but they have no need for that in Eyal.

[Sirrocco]

If you read the text in the Shaloren starter zones, it sure *sounds* like a religious experience for the guy who eventually became the Grand Corrupter. I guess that's more "Rhaloren" than "Corrupter in general".

Oh - and there are also the cultists that captured Melinda. They at least bore a strong resemblance to a demon-worshipping cult.

Edit: also, the urge to serve something larger than yourself is one of many things that can be satisfied by religion (other things include desires for ritual, a community to belong to, a basis for moral certainty, an answer to unanswerable questions, and so forth).

[Grey]

If you read the text in the Shaloren starter zones, it sure *sounds* like a religious experience for the guy who eventually became the Grand Corrupter. I guess that's more "Rhaloren" than "Corrupter in general".

He had a moment of revelation, much like one may find oneself moved by a piece of music and go on to become a musician because of it.

Oh - and there are also the cultists that captured Melinda. They at least bore a strong resemblance to a demon-worshipping cult.

I'd say worship is too strong a word. They know demons aren't immortal, they use some of them as servants and slaves, and the more powerful ones they hold in a bit more reverence because they are rightly of extreme power. But a strong corruptor takes on forms on demonism his/herself. That would be sacrilege were it a religion, no?