Make retribution damage apply to all kinds of attacks

[supermini]

I noticed how much more careful I am about using flurry since the last buff to phantasmal shield and that got me thinking, why doesn't it (and all other kinds of retribution damage) apply to spells and mind attacks?

It would change how some of the classes operate - rather than throwing fireballs everywhere you would have to consider the implications first, which is a good thing in my book. I can't see the net effect being greater than a flurry (6 attacks) most of the time, but that can still hurt. On the other end, it might make phantasmal shield more desirable for players.

[Zonk]

Well, because distance if an issue. If your retribution comes from having an aura of flames, lightning..something on you, then it makes sense that people attacking from afar wouldn't suffer from it.

I do think retribution on MENTAL attacks is a good concept, though. I think it would be especially appropiate for horrors, demons(trying to contact these powerful alien minds can be dangerous), but it would be a huge blow to the power of some character classes...

[supermini]

I don't see why distance is an issue. It's a magical aura of flames, who says it can't hurt you back at 10 range?

[Zonk]

For phantasmal shields and other similar effects, working at a distance makes sense, it's MAGIC - however I think it would be nice if the retribution damage was lowered for every square, so you still get a benefit from attacking at range.

But for some other sources of retribution damage, I definetely think it should only apply to melee - at first I thought you meant ALL forms of strikeback to apply at range...

[PureQuestion]

The problem is that they work at a range anyway for talents that do melee attacks at a range...

[supermini]

But for some other sources of retribution damage, I definetely think it should only apply to melee - at first I thought you meant ALL forms of strikeback to apply at range...

I did, and I still do. Why should ranged characters be spared? They already have the advantage of not being in melee range. Classes that have ranged AOE/beams don't exactly suffer in this game.

I don't think it would be a great nerf as long as you were careful where you throw your spells - which is a good thing in a tactical game.

[Zonk]

I understand that ranged classes don't suffer but it seems...WEIRD to me that stuff like Icy Skin would damage an archer firing at you like 10 spaces away.

[HousePet]

They don't have to be the same effects/talents.
I've made a copy of Phantasmal Shield that works on missile attack. Its pretty easy.
That Spell Feedback prodigy is pretty good, and that only works for only spells.

We don't need/want retribution damage applying to all kinds of attacks, but we could have some applying to some other kinds of attacks.

[SageAcrin]

Too simple of an answer.

There really needs to be three classes of retribution. Melee range, distance, and combined. (Or just physical/magical and hand out combined when you want by assigning similar values of both...either way.)

This prevents weirdness like "spiked" light armor-which is fine with just physical retribution damage anyways-firing off volleys of spikes at archmages(at least Wave of Power has some physical element, somehow). It also makes it easier to make a viable damage skin skill, and makes it so something like Phantasmal Shield can, say, only function on some characters but not others(That'd be cool to be ranged only retribution, in fact...).

Honestly, ranged retribution is all the work this'd take, and it should be an easy code, thinking on it.

Edit: Maybe not so simple, thinking on...it would trigger retribution effects on DoTs, I think, as there's no in-engine check there.

This would be really stupid sometimes, worse than dualwield Flurry blowups. There'd need to be some way to distinguish DoTs for this to really work...

[HousePet]

DoT effects don't trigger on hit (spell/anything), maybe look into how that works?

[Hachem_Muche]

There really needs to be three classes of retribution. Melee range, distance, and combined. (Or just physical/magical and hand out combined when you want by assigning similar values of both...either way.)

The current mechanic uses the on_melee_hit table for each Actor, which is checked only when a melee attack is performed.

To add a new mechanic for ranged (and spell) attacks, a new Actor table on_ranged_hit could hold the values -- with interface changes and care taken to not hit the attacker twice with ranged melee attacks. Actually doing the reactive damage would probably require the projector code to be updated and wouldn't work (at least not directly) for projectiles like archery shots. Individual talents (and perhaps equipment that provides reactive damage) would then need to updated in numerous places to use the new system.

DOTs would not produce retribution damage by default (because they're handled by temporary effects) unless they were explicitly coded to do so.

In other words, this would not be a trivial change to the combat system.

[HousePet]

class:bindHook("Combat:archeryHit", function(self, data)
-- Reactive target on hit damage
local t = data.target:getTalentFromId(data.target.T_PHANTASMAL_MIRROR)
local dam = t.getDamage(data.target, t)
if data.hitted and data.target:knowTalent(data.target.T_PHANTASMAL_MIRROR) and data.target:isTalentActive(data.target.T_PHANTASMAL_MIRROR)then
DamageType:get(DamageType.LIGHT).projector(data.target, self.x, self.y, typ, dam)
end
end)
Its trivial.

[SageAcrin]

...Wouldn't that only impact archery attacks and nothing else?

[HousePet]

Well yeah.

To do one that triggers off spells or mind attacks (or nature attacks) hook DamageProjector:final instead and tweak as needed.

[HousePet]

Just realised that without an is_technique flag, a variety of npc talents won't trigger any of these retributions.