Master archers vault is bad

[Peppersauce]

Well, I think (and often heard from a lot of other players too) that the vault with skellie master archers is just... badly designed, for a couple of simple reasons:

1. it's impossible to clear on melee-only builds and even clearing it is just a big pain for little xp gain.
2. its loot is pathetic, there are always and only a couple of not-so-good items in the center. Furthermore, master archers' drops can't be taken either, unless you have telekinetic leap or similar skills that work inside of vaults.

In short, compared to all the other mid/lategame vaults it's just the worst. Don't get me wrong, the concept behind it is nice, but in its current state it's just a dud.

[SageAcrin]

I agree.

There are some vaults I like more/less, but this vault generally is a useless deathtrap that a spoiled player will never enter, thanks to its distinctive outside design. It's basically the only one I'd pull from the game entirely, if I had my choice.

[PureQuestion]

It's a shame because it's one I really like from a layout perspective - I kinda wish more vaults had multiple entrances and exits.

[Umbrall]

I loved opening this vault, getting away barely, then hitting auto explore (and quite a ways away from it)...

I had about 700 health in the low 20s

[SageAcrin]

I had a Ghoul walk into it, once. First time I had seen it.

They died instantly. This doesn't help me be fond of it.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

I found it the hard way once, and I regard it as one of the most enjoyable vaults I've seen for the sheer experience of it. It was quite unique, and while yeah, the loot was low, slapping up a circle of repulsion and frantically dodging a storm of arrows from every direction at once while taking potshots at the archers was epically entertaining to me. I still regard that as my favorite vault experience. Obviously a good solution, is to alter the loot a bit. Another would be to make a switch we could hit for the archers loot, and even as a means to let melee characters GET to the archers. This kinda destroys the uniqueness, but if you wanted BALANCE...

Personally, I think it's great as is. I'll enter it on any non-melee character that finds it, and try to clear it, just for the joy of the challenge. Vaults are there to TRY and kill you, and it's your responsibility as a brave adventurer to prove they can't. If I have a melee character, I'll try and double movement infuse, or movement + teleport out, to grab the loot, thus once again proving my dominance over the evils that would kill me.

We need MORE unique vaults like this, not just 'oh hey, here's a room with enemies and loot, have fun'. It actually takes a unique approach, and this is a good thing.

[jenx]

Any class can clear this... Shooting, and projections, runes, and etc

[supermini]

The vault is stupid.

With a ranged class (well, one that has AOE) you can just nuke the archers from outside the vault and they can't even move into view to shoot you back (gotcha mechanism FAIL).

With a melee class pop a move infusion, run inside to pick up loot, pop psychoport/teleport/second move infusion.

It's trivial for people who know how to handle it and it kills people who don't.

[SageAcrin]

Or just skip it, since the loot is terrible. Toss out a Vision equivalent if you really want to know if an artifact's in there.

The spoiled basically can trash it. It's not that it's actually challenging to them. It's that it kills the unspoiled.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

How is it killing the unspoiled? Unless they're so squishy they're taking enough damage to die in the VERY TURN they step into view, then they can see 'wow, a bunch of archers I can't reach, I should run away'. Seems like it's a gimme to stay alive there, since my only characters who have run into it, didn't die fast enough to stop from running away. Was this my good fortune, or are some people actually dying the turn they open the door?

[King Gainer]

The pinning can destroy melee characters who enter unprepared.
I agree that the vault needs better treasure or a redesign.

[SageAcrin]

How is it killing the unspoiled? Unless they're so squishy they're taking enough damage to die in the VERY TURN they step into view, then they can see 'wow, a bunch of archers I can't reach, I should run away'.

Spoken like a person who has literally never played a Ghoul or a Yeek, and who usually plays melee tanks. Or someone that combined those two. Regardless.

Yes, I literally died, with a Ghoul caster-not a squishy character, and one that had been building Con, one with IIRC a barrier up, but a character with a speed deficiency-the moment I walked into the vault. One step in. And I didn't see anything from the opened door. Because there is nothing to actually see, from that door, given the position of the Archers.

Also, they're out of LoS from a step within the door with many lamps, at Dreadfell levels. (The vault doesn't matter much post Dreadfell.)

Also, Skeleton Master Archers can crit, and can roll better than usual bows or arrows, furthering their potential damage. They have a fairly wide variety of damage.

Yeah, not all characters die instantly on entering. That's not the point. The point is that it doesn't serve any other useful purpose, besides occasionally killing people the moment they enter. And will never kill those that know about it, because there's no reason to go in there.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

Both of my winners (who both saw the vault) were casters. Anorithil and Solipsist. One was a yeek. Both lived, and IIRC, both cleared the vault. Granted, Anorithil was FUN, but solipsist had a decent challenge.

And I tend to NOT do well with my melee characters. But I concede your point. Loot is sub-standard, improve it.

[phantomglider]

Anorithil and Solipsist are both quite a lot more durable than most of the casters. Unless I miss my guess, the yeek was the solipsist, which provides the durability boost in a way that pretty much completely negates the yeek frailty.

[SageAcrin]

Both of my winners (who both saw the vault) were casters. Anorithil and Solipsist. One was a yeek. Both lived, and IIRC, both cleared the vault. Granted, Anorithil was FUN, but solipsist had a decent challenge.

So heavy armor capable defensive caster types, one which has 0 Life mod and the other effectively 0ish(the exact comparison depends on the point in the game), and one of which ran around at well above normal global speed.

I admit, I was wrong, but that's still pretty funny.