A bunch of ideas from the Tome chat

All new ideas for the upcoming releases of ToME 4.x.x should be discussed here

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Peppersauce
Thalore
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:04 pm

A bunch of ideas from the Tome chat

#1 Post by Peppersauce »

Lately in the tome chat there have been some interesting talks about some cool stuff that could be added or tweaked for the game, I think it's worth talking about them so here they come:

1. Blood of life is practically useless on undead and eating sandworm's heart seasoned with blood of life has become some sort of running joke, so I was thinking... let's add something like this into the game! Prox has a cauldron in Trollmire 3, what about a way to use both the heart and the blood of life in the cauldron? A seasoned heart could give some sort of bonuses that actually differ from the vanilla heart, like... more stat and skill points or... maybe grant a generic tree other than Harmony? A tree that runs on Vim, perhaps? Since undead can't use Harmony either it may actually turn out to be a decent idea for them.

2. Whips are cool, I can't honestly say they aren't, but the lack of decent artifact ones, the lack of common whip drops (as opposed to tridents, which can be found rather easily or less, depending on rng's whims) and the lack of granted ways to get Exotic Mastery before way after level 30 (because relying on Warrior escorts is of course not a thing you should encourage and Slasul can be found only way after you reach level 30 anyway) makes whips builds almost unviable, too many things have to happen to get one going and, let's face it, all of them aren't likely to happen in the same playthrough, so... here's my idea: make Exotic Mastery learnable via trainers (the same way it happens for Combat Training, Shoot, Psiblades and Staff Combat) and add a couple of so mobs that actually use whips, like "Brigands", which could be Whip Marauders, and give them a big chance to drop whips, common ones, just like it happens with Nagas and tridents or Thieves and daggers.

3. Brawlers... eh, Brawlers... their locked trees are quite lackluster but their starting ones are great, all except... Finishing moves. I like and use them all to be honest, but I heard of people that just max Uppercut and disregard the rest of the tree and... well, I can't blame them for that, Concussive Punch and Body Shot aren't that great. Concussive Punch is, along with Spinning Backhand, one of the few aoes Brawlers get, but it's often ignored since its damage output is really too low to be good. It definitely needs a buff, either in the form of increased damage or... maybe its aoe could Daze? Body Shot is cool, but why using that when you have Uppercut? I remember using it only when I needed breathing space and Uppercut was on cooldown tbh. Also, if Concussive Punch gets that daze effect you can be sure Body Shot is gonna get even more frowned upon, so... why not taking it out in favor of another finisher? I'd suggest "Eye Gouge", same damage as Body Shot, but with blinding instead of dazing, 'cause everybody loves blinding stuff, right? :lol:

supermini
Uruivellas
Posts: 800
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:44 pm

Re: A bunch of ideas from the Tome chat

#2 Post by supermini »

I like 2). Maybe we even don't need to add new enemy types - just add a (small) chance of normal enemies using whips, and rogue type enemies could have a slightly better chance of using one. Trainer in town for exotics also sounds ok.
<darkgod> all this fine balancing talk is boring
<darkgod> brb buffing boulder throwers

Earwicker
Higher
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:20 pm

Re: A bunch of ideas from the Tome chat

#3 Post by Earwicker »

Peppersauce wrote:... add a couple of so mobs that actually use whips, like "Brigands", which could be Whip Marauders, and give them a big chance to drop whips
Nah, neither brigands nor marauders. Dominatrices would be much better.

BoomFrog
Halfling
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:19 am

Re: A bunch of ideas from the Tome chat

#4 Post by BoomFrog »

If you take +1 exotic weapons from a warrior can you than put points into it? I've never tried. If yes, than that seems fine, you just need to put it some common whips.

Succubus demons? :p

Burb Lulls
Spiderkin
Posts: 480
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Location: Blighty

Re: A bunch of ideas from the Tome chat

#5 Post by Burb Lulls »

The slaver enemies in the Hidden Compound would seem like a gimme for dropping whips, given their profession.

Peppersauce
Thalore
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:04 pm

Re: A bunch of ideas from the Tome chat

#6 Post by Peppersauce »

BoomFrog wrote:If you take +1 exotic weapons from a warrior can you than put points into it? I've never tried. If yes, than that seems fine, you just need to put it some common whips.
Yeah, you can put points into it then, but even then whether or not you'll use whips with decent proficiency depends solely on luck and... meh, I don't like that.

Any way to make common whips drop is fine by me tbh, I'd just like them to be a thing, also since there are no artifact whips you may want to use in endgame, they all suck, honestly... and the only one that sucks a bit less is a 2-hander. >>

As of now the only way to get whips in game is using an outdated addon (http://te4.org/games/addons/tome/more-exotic-weapons) and, while it probably still works (didn't check it in the current version), I'd like whips to become a reasonable weapon choice in the main game, because right now they aren't.

Infinitum
Halfling
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:05 pm

Re: A bunch of ideas from the Tome chat

#7 Post by Infinitum »

The other way to go about this is to merge the Dagger, Exotic and Weapons masteries into one skill, bringing the combat training tree in line with 4 skills. Gameplay-wise the only effects this would have would be to make 1-hander/dagger users more efficient overall (and even then they would still need points in Dual-Wielding to reduce the offhand malus) and make the early Exotic artifacts usable. There would still be some problem with templating as it'd need to require either STR or DEX to raise in order not to shaft rogues, but it's still a simple way to solve the current conondrum (ie Exotic weapons are used solely because of the legacy).
Last edited by Infinitum on Fri May 17, 2013 8:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

SageAcrin
Sher'Tul Godslayer
Posts: 1884
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:52 pm

Re: A bunch of ideas from the Tome chat

#8 Post by SageAcrin »

Here's a thought: Have Weapon Mastery grant 50% of its power/damage bonus to Tridents, and Dagger Mastery 50% of its power/damage bonus to Whips.

This makes them not as powerful as normal weapons-but the gap closes somewhat-without Exotic Weapon Mastery. With, you can achieve insane raw physical power-which thanks to the diminishing returns, shouldn't be overpowered.

Such a step is basically required before you make common Whips(outside of the Trident way, where a bunch of enemies just drop them as free loot. Which should be done anyways, probably. I suggest having some higher end demon types have whips the same way Naga have Tridents.).

Amphouse
Thalore
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:31 pm

Re: A bunch of ideas from the Tome chat

#9 Post by Amphouse »

I think some lasher-type enemies, maybe as orcs, maybe as demons, would be fitting. You'd want to do something about exotic weapons mastery as well if you want whips/tridents to be useable in the early game, I like some of the ideas I've seen here.

BoomFrog
Halfling
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Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:19 am

Re: A bunch of ideas from the Tome chat

#10 Post by BoomFrog »

I like the idea of merging all the melee damage skills together. Your still specializing by picking str or dex for your stats anyway. Than you could make a single exotic weapon skill that gives an effect based on the weapon. Whips have a chance to inflict agony and tridents occasionally start a grapple?

Or make a whole tree unblockable at 1.0 skill only from warrior escorts. Whips get chance for agony, a range 2 "telekentic grab", a radius 1 knockback with 1 turn of pin, and maybe a melee silence? It's hard to not step on the toes of the shadowblade ambush tree. Better stick to a single skill.

Peppersauce
Thalore
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:04 pm

Re: A bunch of ideas from the Tome chat

#11 Post by Peppersauce »

I suggest you try that addon I linked before (if that still works). grayswandir gave common whips a 100% Dex modifier, a bit less damage than daggers but granted them a small chance to disarm the enemy on hit, which I found to be a cool way to give them some flavor.
A (generic) weapon tree/skill that could grant whips and tridents some extra moves? I like that idea and it opens up for nice tree combos, like Psiblades and Dual Wield trees and Staff Combat and 2h trees.
I honestly like all of your ideas, as long as whips become viable all is cool for me. :lol:

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