Moar polish!

[Grey]

ToME4 is already a very polished game, but recently playing Cardinal Quest has made me realise that there is still much more that can be done to streamline the interface and make the game more friendly to new players. If you've not played the game then go give the demo a quick whirl and hopefully you'll see what I mean. You can also check out the new podcast I'm involved in, Roguelike Radio, for some discussion on what makes the interface so great.

Anyway, ToME4 is pretty slick, especially with the mouse interface and tooltips. You don't need the read a long manual or check out a huge spoiler site to get stuck in. I've suggested the enemy details window to help improve that aspect more. However I think there are ways for the interface in general to be slicker, to speed up basic actions and make many things a little easier. Some ideas:

1. Wall-sliding (which is the best term I know for it) was an idea of Jeff Lait's that's implemented in Vicious Orcs very well. Basically if moving against a wall the game automatically guesses which way you really want to move. So pressing 9 whilst in a vertical corridor will move you upwards, as that's a sensible approximation of where you want to go. May not sound special, but if you spend a few moments navigating Vicious Orcs' twisty dungeons you'll really come to appreciate it. Makes keyboard movement much smoother.

2. Auto-equip better equipment. If you pick up an equipment item that has no negatives and is equal to or better in every way to the existing equipment item then swap it. Could be an option to set. Admittedly it doesn't apply that well to ToME4 since eq is so varied, but it at least makes sense in the early game when all your slots are empty. Have a fly-out to say "equipped" when it happens.

3. Auto-highlight last item. If you pick up an item and then choose to go into your inventory straight after then the last item you picked up should be highlighted, since it rather makes sense that it's the item you're after.

4. Auto-order items better. Most commonly used items should be at the top of the inventory - in particular the Orb of Scrying, the various Rods, all wands. Items with no inventory use should be at the bottom - gems, ingredients, etc. Within each item type (swords for instance) they should be ordered by value - artifacts first, then randarts, then purples, blues, greens, plains. The most important stuff should always come first. Ordering should be class-based too - daggers higher than swords for rogues, robes higher than massive armour for mages, etc. The game should feel intuitive about what you want.

5. Colour the encumbrance total at the top of the inventory. Green at less than 75% max, yellow at 75-90%, orange for 90-100% and red when over the max.

6. Always have correct ranged targeting, even if it means using odd lines. If you can see an enemy you should be able to shoot it, without having to aim behind it or fiddle with shift+direction keys whilst targeting. Let the computer figure out the correct angle and aim appropriately. This includes when using the Shoot command tied to right-click - it shouldn't end up in the wall because the computer can't aim as well as you can.

7. Fade foreground walls when something's behind it. Some sort of transparency or something should be possible to implement so you can see clearly what's in the square in a corridor, whether it's a known trap, an enemy or items. Obviously needs some careful coding to ensure it doesn't reveal stealthed enemies or unknown traps.

8. Connected dungeons. Been said before, but it's very newbie unfriendly to have disconnected parts of the dungeon unless it's some very deliberate treasure cash like in Reknor. Diggers should not be a necessary implement in the game.

9. All subpanes should be resizeable, moveable and toggleable. People are used to having customised interfaces these days, and it helps the game look better on a variety of display sizes. Not everyone wants the minimap or the chat log or a status bar that's so big, whilst others might want to keep their character profile always on in the top-right corner.

10. More tutorials. Check out Dungeons of Dredmor for an example of a nice range of tutorials showing a variety of gameplay features. In particular I think ToME4 could do with alchemist, archer and archmage tutorials to show off some more individual class features.

There's probably various other things that other people can suggest, especially players who have come along recently and been frustrated or confused by certain things in the game. It's important to make ToME4 as welcoming and easy to pick up as possible.

[Grey]

Regarding no 1, wall-sliding, there's some discussion on how to implement it here.

[budswell]

I'm a bit dubious about wall sliding. Would have to be smart. When I'm fighting invisible/stealthed dreads I hit all the wall tiles first when searching for them.

[Zonk]

1: Sounds interesting, but if implemented I'd want the option to turn it off(or maybe even have it off by default). You know someone is going to make a mistake and then complain otherwise

2: Not too sure about this...but like 1, if implemented should be an option off by default.

3: Aren't new items bolded in your inventory right now?

4: That'd make inventory use much faster, but the system needs to be smart about these things, and it could require lots of coding. Also, I'd rather have it based on item use than your class. Or, have multiple option settings: off, by class, by use, and 'by class and use'.

5: Nothing to say here, would be nice but it's no biggie.

6: Not sure what you mean. I think the current LoS code is going to get a fix anyway, and that might make this redundant.

7: DEFINETELY want this. Trees can make some things pretty hard to see..

8: Dunno, I think disconneted parts should be much rarer, but I don't hate them by default. I think giving a starting pickaxe or having a pickaxe shop would work, too.

9: Would be nice, yes.

10: Tutorials for alchemist, archmage, and perhaps some other unlocked classes would be nice. I don't think archers need them, though.

[Grey]

3: Aren't new items bolded in your inventory right now?

I don't mean bolded, I mean that the selection highlight (which you can move up and down with the arrow keys) should be automatically on the latest item, with the tooltip for that item showing up in the corner. That way you pick up an item, press i for inventory, and then press enter to interact with your latest item. No scrolling through the inventory to find the item you just picked up.

6: Not sure what you mean. I think the current LoS code is going to get a fix anyway, and that might make this redundant.

Currently if an enemy is around a corner at the end of a long tunnel then press a talent hotkey will target the enemy, but actually using the talent will fire it off into a wall. To target the enemy correctly you have to aim behind them, getting the ranged path to go through them. The suggestion is to have the game always target a route that will go through your target instead of through the wall.

[darkgod]

Polish is good

1) Actually the early alpha/betas had wall sliding, but people didnt like it .. I could try it again (engine.interface.PlayerSlide if you want it in your module BTW)
2) As you say it's rather of limited use for T4
3) yeah
4) By class is not enough it should even be by talents, but a basic thing could do good already
5) yup
6) Fixed in b34 tahnks to tiger eye FOV/LOS patch which makes LOS works like FOV
7) Really not easy, I mean really
yeah ..
9) yeah ..
10) make some it's easy !

[Grey]

Please see my reply to Zonk about number 6, as I think I wasn't clear enough in my original post. It's about targeting of talents, not the FOV. Check out DoomRL for an example of a game in which targeting an enemy always gives you an unobstructed target line.

As has been said elsewhere, more sound effects would be good, especially for important events that might get missed in the log. Perhaps it's worth a separate thread though...

[tiger_eye]

Please see my reply to Zonk about number 6, as I think I wasn't clear enough in my original post. It's about targeting of talents, not the FOV. Check out DoomRL for an example of a game in which targeting an enemy always gives you an unobstructed target line.

Understood, and please see current svn .

If you can see a tile, you can target it; if you can't see a tile (such as an enemy is outside your lite range and the level is unlit), then the current, basic targeting path is used and may still be blocked by an unseen obstruction.

[darkgod]

See this example


I didnt have to move my cursor at all, it targetted correctly the skeleton and will project along the correct path to hit it, because I can see it.

Yeah tiger eye is that awesome!
Coming next, symetric FOV !

PS: THe current patch in svn also allows modules to set the FOV "shape" they wish to use, from circle to diamond to square

[Grey]

Heh, that's exactly what I was suggesting, but as usual you fix things before people get to complain about them :P

[budswell]

Coming next, symetric FOV !

I am so dead ....

[Talonj]

7... Can and should be implemented. By getting rid of all double-height tiles. (Maybe not monster tiles, but background and ESPECIALLY wall tiles should NOT extend beyond their square to begin with)

[Grey]

Other suggestions:

11. Right-clicking on talents in the shortcut bar should allow you to rebind them to another key, wipe their key command or set them to auto-use, without having to go through the talents screen.

12. Drag and drop items into equipment slots, or into the transmog chest. Dragging them outside the inventory window should result in dropping them.

13. Right-clicking on items should give the option to key-bind them (since it's not intuitive that it's possible to do that).

14. Ability to view the game log and use the chat feature at any point, without having to exit the relevant dialogue boxes.

15. Reduce the size of the inventory window, talent window and level up window so they don't completely obscure the game log and chat.

[darkgod]

11) But .. it does already
12) planned once I redo the inventory
13) good one
14/15) good but not that easy to do well

[Grey]

11) But .. it does already

Heh, this is what happens when I make suggestions from work without being able to test if they're already in the game :)