Save Rolls: show chance of resist/fail

[jotwebe]

Currently, when you make a save roll, you only get informed o whether you resisted or not. This often leads to players having a hard time estimating how effictive their saves are. It would be nice if the game additionally informed you of the probability the roll was made with, for example: "You resist! (chance was 67%)" That would help in telling the difference between bad luck and bad strategy.

[bricks]

I like this idea a lot. I would like to see the same applied to enemy save rolls/resistances, since its currently difficult to judge whether or not certain enemies can be inflicted with some attacks, and how difficult those defenses are to pierce. It was very confusing for my Reaver's diseases and elemental-type enemies.

It's worth noting that the message should make it clear what the percent means, especially if it shows up on both successes and failures. For example, with a total of 40% chance to resist when accounting for innate disease resistance and pertinent save rolls:

You are inflicted with a disease! (40% chance to resist)
You resist a disease! (40% chance to resist)

I think that is the most intuitive way to handle that. It does make the message kind of wordy. Since it accounts for both resistances and saves, perhaps there is a term that is more all-encompassing to avoid confusion.

[fearoffours]

I dunno, this is a bit 4th wall breaking... I know damage figures are as well, but this seems a bit too, er, technical? Exposing gameplay mechanics too much, maybe?

[jotwebe]

And having 624 hitpoints, an attack of 120, and a mental save of 62 isn't?

[bricks]

I dunno, this is a bit 4th wall breaking... I know damage figures are as well, but this seems a bit too, er, technical? Exposing gameplay mechanics too much, maybe?

I would typically agree, but ToME is already rather laden with information. If this didn't happen, I'd like saves and resists to show up on inspecting enemies. It is only fair, considering that damage resistances already show up, not to mention a myriad of other stats.

[Grey]

There would need to be different messages for saving via a saving throw and saving via a % resistance, otherwise one wouldn't be clear on where the saves are really helping.

I also agree on keeping stats out of the message log - it ruins immersion.

[jotwebe]

How about verbal info then?

• "You resist effortlessly!" >90%
• "You resist easily!" 75-90%
• "You resist confidently!" 60-75%
• "You resist!" 40-60%
• "You resist with some effort!" 25-40%
• "You barely resist!" 10-25%
• "You resist by pure luck!" <10%

[fearoffours]

I could live with that kind of verbal feeedback, jotwebe, but I'm not convinced it's necessary (not having got that much into the endgame though (Been to the East, beaten all available extra dungeons, died on lvl 3 of my first Orc Pride)

[jenx]

I think this sort of info would be VERY helpful. At the moment, I plough through the log to try to get this info.

[Hedrachi]

IMO, if I wanted a game that focused on immersion, then there wouldn't be resource bars, a combat log, or numbers of any sort on the screen except maybe to tell me what level I was on, and how many turns left I had for effects currently on my character. I personally feel that for the lore purposes, that list jotwebe proposed is better than a flat out resist chance being shown. I've been to every optional dungeon in the game, beaten all but one, made a necklace from one pride leader's spine only to die later to the pride that makes teleportation immunity worthwhile.

[bricks]

Jotwebe's list sounds like a good compromise, though I would possibly compress it more towards the ends (or add special messages for 0% and 100% resist, assuming they are truly obtainable).