Cap on modified stats

[Susramanian]

Base stats are capped at 60, but there's no limit to how high you can push a stat using equipment bonuses and other methods. After spending a lot of time trying to balance mindslayers, I realized that the existence of a cap on modified stats would be really nice.

I propose a couple changes:

1) Make racial stat modifiers affect the cap on base values. A race with a -3 modifier to magic would have a max magic stat base of 57, for example.

2) Cap modified stats at twice the base. The above character would have a cap of 114 (2*57) for his magic stat.

These would also make racial stat modifiers much more important than they are now, which is nice, since they're largely useless at the moment.

[Grey]

I thought racial modifiers already counted as separate to the base? So essentially with -3 to magic from race you can only get to 57 without external boosts.

I think class modifiers should act in the same way.

But yeah, a cap at twice the base would be high enough to not really interfere with most chars, whilst preventing unbalancing effects. It doesn't prevent one pushing spellpower / mindpower / physpower higher though, and those are what a lot of things really scale off.

[Final Master]

I love Sus' idea, do it! :D [Note: I had a Ghoul Zerker the other day that got to ALMOST 180 Con ... and I say put a cap... because that resist all + hp + regeneration wasn't fair]

[Frumple]

... I think if temp effects (sustains, foopower infusions, etc.) would let you go over the 2x limit on equip boosts, I wouldn't mind this, much.

I'd honestly just rather let folks with 150+ stats just break the game, though. It's incredibly unsatisfying to hit a stat cap, balance appropriate for one to be there or not. Not even particularly fond of the talent level caps (especially considering the number of monsters that exceed it).

I'd posit as an alternately solution to simply have stats over the 2x (or perhaps 1.5x, so 90 before race modifiers) limit give diminishing returns. That would keep a cap out of the situation while still mostly doing the same thing. Not sure how the rate of diminishing would play out, though.

[darkgod]

(especially considering the number of monsters that exceed it)

This is never to be a consideration "oh but monsters 'cheat' so I should do the same".
To which I reply:
Ok but then I let NPCs be exactly the same as the player, that is every humanoid would have a full equipment, mostly of egos or more, along with all possible talents it can and all would use tactical AI and have 3/4/5 infusions.

You want that ?

[Frumple]

Delicious loot. LET THEM COME!

Seriously though, that's not the point I'd make. It's not that they cheat, it's that I know they cheat. It stings a little knowing they're not under the same limitations I am, etc, etc. I wouldn't actually advocate uncapping the talents, mostly because the majority of them have scaling effects -- which renders the level cap a soft instead of hard cap. From a psychological point of view, the soft caps are less annoying. S'why I'd recommend diminishing returns on stats instead of a hard 'thou-shalt-not-pass'.

Though to be fair... I'd love full player/npc symmetry. Most of what you fight isn't humanoid, anyway, and having ones you do able to bust out with everything you can... thrilling. Simply thrilling.

P.S. If you do include full monster inventory, make sure Cs can wear amulets and cloaks. Perhaps boots, as well. I want to run into a Warg Titan cosplaying as Superdog.

[edge2054]

(especially considering the number of monsters that exceed it)

This is never to be a consideration "oh but monsters 'cheat' so I should do the same".
To which I reply:
Ok but then I let NPCs be exactly the same as the player, that is every humanoid would have a full equipment, mostly of egos or more, along with all possible talents it can and all would use tactical AI and have 3/4/5 infusions.

You want that ?

Also players do break the 5 talent cap through masteries. A player can hit 1.3 + .2 + .4 (from mastery amulets) + .1 more if there's a set artifact that increases that talent category.

Sounds like a 10 to me

[Postman]

Propose of the game is not it to be "fair" or balanced, or strictly consistent but it to be fun. Caps work as is now, and the game is not especially easy. My opinion - if it works leave it as is.

[Grey]

Hmm, had a little idea. Perhaps talents shouldn't call the getStat() function, but instead should call a new function getAdjStat(). This function would work as follows:

if getStat <= 60 then return getStat
else return (60 + (getStat-60)^0.9)

This way talents work exactly the same up to stat level 60, after which there are reducing gains. A stat of 70 would have a talent effectiveness of about 69. 90 -> 82, 120 -> 100, 200 -> 145. The effectiveness always increases - there is no cut off - but the returns are less and less.

This would only affect talents, and not things like combat damage or hit points, etc. It helps get around the imbalancing effects of people (I'm looking at you Frumple) who manipulate their stats to insane levels, thus breaking aspects of the game.

Only problem would be things that scale off spellpower or mindpower instead of raw stats. They would possibly need their own cut off point where returns become less and less. Or perhaps they should use the getAdjStat function themselves, so you can't end up with ridiculous levels of spellpower.