Seems like a cool game, but the one shot kill bosses....

[shadow9d9]

So, I'm on my second time through the game with my archer. I am in one of the 4 areas that I must explore for my main quest. I am level 8. There are 3 pedestals. I look at each and then kill what appears. Then, a level 33 demon and 2 level 3 companions appear and one shot me. This seems to be a trend in this game. What fun is it if a boss multiples of your level shows up in a level 6-8 area?

[Radon26]

it is posible for a random lvl 30 to appear very early, but this one was your fault.

first, playing an archer.
second, entering a t2 dungeon with only lvl 8.
and last, activating the god damn pedestal which guarantees a demon of some kind, and those have a minimum lvl, even through they are only minor ones.

you try, you die, you learn. that how the rogue likes work.

wait a sec i hear it from the future "t2? but he entered the low lvl! he said 6-8 lvl area!"

he didn't knew most likely, or is just very bad at giving info, so lets expand on it.

when you start, you usually begin with a quest, saying "clear those 2 dungeons".
some classes insert a special duneon instead, like archmage or chronomancer for example, after which you can still do all of the standard t1 dungeons.

after that, you recieve a t2 quest for: daikara, old forest, sandworm lair, and labirynth
BEFORE you enter them you should also get a sidequest about saving derth, which make you unable to complete arena if you havent done it already. you get the storming the city side quest around lvl 14.

You however entered a t2 dungeon at lvl 8, as on underpowered class, with not enough personal experience to know about the pedestals.

[shadow9d9]

This is my 2nd character. Knowing that pedestals summon a demon... How should anyone know that ahead of time? The point is, why would ANYTHING summon a level 30+ to a level 8 character. The regular bosses and creatures in the area were cakewalks. It is a terrible design decision.

As for a second quest, I have not gotten any. If the main quest says to go to four places, then one of those four places shouldn't have a level 30+ creature!

[Micbran]

Like Radon said, it's a try and die kinda thing. You try to summon demon, you die. Congrats! You now know not to touch the pedestal again until adequately prepared! And you also know not to ever play archer again! The thing is, you're supposed to die. That's why there's permadeath. Not only does it increase replay ability but it also forces you to learn from your mistakes of you ever want to progress any further.
There are two ways to deal with this "issue." Look up guides or play the game more. Have fun!

And one day, you too can one shot bosses. Okay, maybe half shot.

then one of those four places shouldn't have a level 30+ creature!

Just putting this out there, you summoned it. It wasn't intrinsically there, the pedestals of doom are just random events that CAN spawn and are optional. And now you know! Isn't that great?

Edit: Sorry if I came off as a little... Condescending? It's just natural.

[shadow9d9]

With the way I have leveled my characters and equipped myself, I am quite powerful as archer. If a class is so bad that it is unplayable, like you are suggesting, then the game is quite underdeveloped. And again, random is fine. But spawning an enemy that is so far removed from your level and then having that entire area blocked off for another 25+ levels(until you hit that level, which is 4x my character's level) is just terrible, terrible design. Challenge should be fair and reasonable, semi roguelike or not.

[Geldable]

I highly recommend that you don't open any vaults, you won't like the risk to reward...

If you don't know what something is or does, I would make sure that you have options for any outcome available to you... in this case, at least an escape ability of some sort (yes, you probably couldn't kill that demon... but you didn't need to spawn it and you didn't need to fight it... so there were options besides dying... maybe bad options... but options...).

There are worse things that can happen early game... at least one mentioned recently in the spoilers forum...

[emblempride]

I would also suggest exploring a bit more before tackling the main quest. Certain races/classes have different starting areas, but these areas are accessible to all characters. Experiment with certain combinations, usually once players figure out where they are on the map they play the ones they like or even all of them before taking on the second tier dungeons, and there's also a couple of early-level (level 8 is a good minimum) sidequests you can find if you walk around the map. The game is designed, however, for the first dungeon of the second quest to be balanced around doing it right after the first quest on Normal, I believe. The dungeons scale with your level, and though there are caps, they are meant to be manageable outside of vaults and things like the pedestal. That's just your first experience with one of a handful of random, dangerous events that can appear in certain second tier dungeons onwards. Now you know your curiosity will often flip you the bird! With enough experience, you'll be able to think of ways to get out of these potentially fatal scenarios when you feel you are underpowered for the circumstance, whether it be one of these random events or a congested monster room with stairs placed directly underneath a Bulwark Runed Bone Giant. They do pop up (usually in optional or tight areas) and at first things tend not to go your way, but the game's learning curve isn't as steep as other roguelikes so it's easier to adjust to in comparison. You may even be able to come back and take on that boss with a character half its level with the right build and strategy (though I wouldn't recommend it in most cases!). I know how you feel, but if you make rule number one to assess and learn from your mistakes, it'll make things a lot easier in every way and the game a lot more enjoyable. If there were like 7 of just your character, theoretically you could kill a God, but you can also get punched to shit by literally a magic robot so you gotta be careful always.

[Micbran]

Archer isn't bad, it just lacks certain key features that would make it friendlier to a less experienced player.

[Coldbringer]

Firstly, ignore the Archer hate, it's a fun and powerful class more than capable of surviving and winning.

One of my first characters was a sling using halfling archer when I was brand new to this game, he has only had a few deaths and made it to the east on normal difficulty. Currently taking down the orc prides as I play other characters at the same time. I think he will be a winner, barring some very bad luck or stupid decisions on my part.

So yeah, I feel your pain about the pillars and the level 30 boss it summoned. That's a nasty surprise. Hope you weren't on roguelike difficulty. Now you know to leave those things alone until you are higher level. I'd say you can take them at about level 15-20 depending on your class and equipment. As others have mentioned, vaults, graves, and optional side areas can also have 'out of depth' monsters that are very deadly. Look up what dungeons are Tier 1 and do all of them first before you start the tier 2 dungeons. You'll need the items/xp/extra skills they will give you.

And again, like other people have said, always have an escape method or two ready to use immediately.

The game is cruel, and punishing sometimes, but very fun. Each death will make you wiser and better prepared to eventually win.

[HousePet]

Dying is how you learn not to die. It is entirely expected for this to happen.

[jaumito]

Dying is how you learn not to die. It is entirely expected for this to happen.

You wasted a good opportunity to double on your opening oxymoron here, so let me rewrite this: It is entirely expected for unexpected death to happen.

(Because the only predictable thing about ToME is it's often unpredictable.)

[Xitax]

For all the people defending the way this game works: it's unfair a little too often.

75% or more of the time I end up dying to pink uniques. Seriously, f*** those guys.

[HousePet]

It can be unfair, but that doesn't mean it can be made fairer.
Any system with random elements is going to have such situations, and they can't be avoided.

[Radon26]

pink, while can be a pain in the ass are not op (unless rolled on something like luminous horror while you play sun pal...).
rare enemies cannot get any power that you would not be able to have... in some incarnation.

a rare enemy is an enemy with a class, which is rolled out of all the classes that you could chose as well, at the beginning.
then the rare is given random talents from that one class, and the only abilities he gets that don't belong there, are racials.
so for example rare snake will get class talents + venomous bite, or a rare jelly would get class talents + jelly split.

yes, they may get like +5 lvls, but don't you have a superior equipment? while they get... archamge class + antimagic gear....

to call the op, what do you think gives them the "unfair" advantage?
what do they have that you dont?

and again, clear counters like luminous horror against a sun pal do not count.

, and they can't be avoided.

like how the hell do you deal with that lvl30 naga myrmidon that shows up from time to time in the maze and one shots you from outside of your vision...

[Xitax]

So what? None of that matters. It's irrelevant because getting killed by these guys all the time is what happens. It makes the game much less fun.

Most pink guys I can handle, but I'm guaranteed to find one of these guys each game, eventually. And the higher level I am, the more likely I'm to find the guy who has that skill that kills me instantly.