What Are The Players?

[Red]

The characters we play as are not human/elvish/dwarven/halfingian/yeekish. (They may be proper undead, though, but not likely.) Normal people have to eat, sleep, drink, do all that stuff. In the Loremaster's notes, he even remarks that an adventurer from a long time ago was missing these needs that he himself had. Not simply that the adventurer was more used to travel and didn't eat as much, but that he simply did not need to. Tannen as well remarks on you personally, noting your explosive growth is unprecedented, something he wanted to study in order to replicate among others. All of this clearly shows that whatever you are isn't normal among your race, so this begs the question-what exactly are we when we play?

As a minor note, I'd be willing to ignore all this (we are protaganists, after all) except it's directly addressed in game. So clearly, something must be up.

[Doctornull]

The players are not human

Are you intoxicated?

[Red]

...

Right, the characters we play as. I didn't think anyone would misunderstand that, but I suppose I can edit that if I have to.

[Farkon]

You could say that we're nephalem...

lol jk





Is it ever really stated that we NEVER eat,sleep, or etc? I'd imagine while being in dangerous ruins, or fighting hectic battles that our bodies would ignore such needs and focus completely on the task at hand. Also, every time we rest, who's to say we don't bust out a flask to drink from or take a wiz on the floor?

[Candesce]

Is it ever really stated that we NEVER eat,sleep, or etc?

Yes - there's a few pieces of lore in Var'Eyal with entertaining commentary on adventurers.

Red mentioned them in the original post, even.

[Grey]

It's meant as a joke piece, but read more into it if you like ;)

[Red]

Grey, speaking as once person with a color based username to another, know that I will take everything far, far too seriously.

Though I can't really think of Tannen's notes as a joke, and he clearly sees something unusual about you. He's a smart guy, I believe him. Does it have something to do with Eidolon, or is that just for lives? Is it like in KOTOR II where you're literally absorbing the life essence of all you kill to empower yourself? (Which explained your level ups, but not your companions.)

[Hogulus]

The way I thought about it, Tannen just notices you're an anomaly by going up against increasingly-overwhelming odds and repeatedly coming out on top, but that could be because of your clever tactics, sheer luck, or simply learning more about the world and your own capabilities as anyone else would. In fact, I'd say that if there's any particular reason you're "so special" (as Tannen puts it), it'd be the experiences you've lived to learn from, whereas your typical commoner would probably get gibbed the first time he/she ran into a couple of stone trolls. Given Tannen's demonic connections (one of many possibilities for the "sources" he mentioned), it's quite possible that the demons exaggerated things to justify to themselves why their painstakingly-developed invasion forces, the ones who perhaps almost got you with some wretchlings back in Daikara, are now getting loads of their prized thaurheregs slaughtered at the hands of some inferior Eyalite; the idea that all Eyalites have the potential to cause them serious trouble would be a major blow to morale, and they would encourage Tannen's experimentation to either squash those rumors immediately or, at a minimum, make sure you disappear before becoming a legend, keeping the rest of Eyal from getting their hopes up and being inspired by your heroics to train themselves for combat. (They'd be banking on getting enough leeched portal-data to warp over some assassins, should Tannen actually find something unique about you and start planning to replicate it.)

Of course, I also like the idea that the Eidolon's doing more to you than just bringing you back from the brink of death, so feel free to interpret it however you want! All the in-game lore necessarily indicates is that a: an adventurer jerked a historian around by claiming he doesn't eat, and b: Tannen's too curious to ignore when some nobody adventurer starts turning all of Maj'Eyal's ongoing problems into bloody piles of loot in the span of a few weeks, then shows up on his doorstep. Maybe you're the reincarnation of Garkul?

[Lyoncet]

One possible explanation, given this is a Roguelike and all, is that after all the weaklings get weeded out (i.e. the characters who do get gibbed by a pack of Wretchlings in Daikara), those who make it all the way to Tannen are those X-in-five-million-recorded-deaths are a cut above the rest. It may be in part due to natural variance. (Tannen takes no interest in those five million splats on the floor, after all.) I do like to think of all my dead characters, and everyone else's as existing in-universe with whoever I'm playing. It lends some gravitas to the situation and some weight to the "so many people have attempted X and never returned" that are sprinkled about.

Of course this doesn't explain just why those who survive end up one-shotting Forge Giants.

[Red]

Nor why those who made progress, say murdering Prox/Shax, don't have that progress show on the next guy.

And while I'm not so sure about being Garkul's new form (but that would be SO - AWESOME! I LOVE THAT GUY! And would make siding with the Orcs when the DLC finally comes out even more awesome.), that does actually make me think.

No progress is left from character to character, but every character does just a little bit better. (Okay, going from Dwarven Alchemist to Yeek Berserker will be a lot worse, but hang with me here.) Why? Because you get smarter. You take what you learned from old characters and apply them to new characters.

In-game, what does this mean? Each character is a gestalt spirit made of every other adventurer in a parrallel dimension, or possibly a singular recursive dimension. Each time a character dies, their spirit moves on and melds with the rest, slowly going from someone who gets gibbed by Bill to something capable of beating Madness Roguelike, conquering a world so much stronger than him without perishing so much as once.

This also explains why you basically never say anything-you're not human (elvish, halflingian, etc.) enough to. Having so many spirits in one makes you on another level from the ordinary people around you, which also makes killing them easier. No remorse for killing a bandit of your race, for you are not of their race. You are a godling who merely inhabits a mortal shell of the same race. (And I guess your first character was just a taciturn pyschopath.)

As for why you exist, I'd assume old Sher'Tul experiment got loose. Or perhaps it's being engineered by a still living Sher'Tul, or the gestalt is forming around the seed of a Sher'Tul soul. Basically, Sher'Tul Shenanigans, because that explains most things in this game.

[Grey]

Basically, Sher'Tul Shenanigans, because that explains most things in this game.

Chuck in a dose of Spellblaze too ;)

[Red]

Ooh, a group of Sher'Tul who were in a pocket dimension. When the Spellblaze hit, one of them set all their souls free in an attempt to survive, but the Spellblaze caused them to combine and form the base of the player gestalt.

That would also explain the natural power increase over time-in the span of months at most, you gain ridiculous amounts of raw power. No amount of talent or experience can explain why at the start you could be one shot by a troll but later on can survive a direct hit with a meteor or three, even if you're in the same gear and have no extra defensive abilities set up. A Sher'Tul gestalt would explain how you can power up, as the Sher'Tul will be able to capture the essence of those that die and just excess energy all around to power you up, and the fact that there's a lot of Sher'Tul explains why nothing carries over, since in any given instance one gains dominance but the others tear it down in the downtime between lives.

In fact, there might be one Sher'Tul per class, and each time you pick a new class you are simply choosing which Sher'Tul spirit gains dominance this time around.

As a side note, you're one of the official lore people, right Grey? Can you tell me whether this is something that ever came up in while you guys were making the lore, or did you just not think of it because it's such a common thing in any RPG game, roguelike or not?

[LordKarasuman]

This is one of those story elements I'd prefer to remain a mystery, actually.

[Red]

You should probably just turn the other way if you see my name on a post in General Discussion then, Lord Karasuman. I'm all about exploring the nooks and crannies and gaping holes of lore. I might miss obvious details, read too much into things, and reach vastly erroneous conclusions just because they sound cool, but still.

[Grey]

As a side note, you're one of the official lore people, right Grey? Can you tell me whether this is something that ever came up in while you guys were making the lore, or did you just not think of it because it's such a common thing in any RPG game, roguelike or not?

Entirely unthought of. The player existed before Eyal.

But then perhaps we're not the ones truly in control?