[b43] Lack of game balance (Again)

[jenx]

I have to admit that b43 is MUCH better balanced than b42, largely thanks to nerfing of rares.

But the random events can still be ridiculously unbalanced. I just took a lvl 20 AM Cursed, with amazing gear, into a Forsaken Crypt, on a mid tier dungeon. So I should expect a random event in a mid-tier event to be doable by a very strong character.

I was massacred within 3 turns when I encountered the boss, who hit me for hundreds of damage per turn, and then summoned oodles of other creatures. AM, so no teleport, and lvl 20, and no psychoportation found yet.

This sort of experience is outright frustrating and imho completely off-putting to players. I don't mind challenging scenarios, tough fights, etc.

But the key point here is that I had *zero* chance to beat this boss, which was placed in a dungeon for which I was actually overpowered, with an excellent character with high hit points and resists.

So, I suggest that the game is still not balanced properly.

[darkgod]

Ok I'll go fix the talents X and Y you mentioned then...

[SageAcrin]

I'm still trying to figure out what the Foresaken Crypt is.

There's a Dark Crypt that sorta sounds like that name, but I don't know what possibly could have met that description of an enemy in there.

Then there's the graveyard/mausoleum but they never call it a Foresaken Crypt that I recall, but that sorta sounds like he's describing Celia...never mind that it isn't a mid-tier area and gives the out of your depth warnings if you go into it at L20. (I think the Dark Crypt does too, though.)

Then there's the Elven Ruins, which could also be it. (And would definitely have given you a warning that you shouldn't be in there.)

So, without specifics, I'm going to have to go with "ToME doesn't believe in artificially limiting what areas you can go to." and suggest you pay attention to those entry warnings, because all three areas really aren't that mid-tier. If it's another area, though, please try to clarify and I'll try my best to help out there.

[darkgod]

It's the rat lich event

[SageAcrin]

Oh, huh.

I haven't gotten that yet, so it's hard for me to contribute usefully there.

[Judecca]

To be fair, if this: http://te4.org/characters/2460/tome/8e3 ... 1da2801549 is the cursed you were talking about, that equipment is... not really amazing in the slightest, and some of it's even outright bad at that level. Your resists weren't also that high, and looking at the last messages in the log you were being hit by darkness which you had no actual gear for. (though in the middle of posting this it just updated, so the remarks on equipment probably aren't going to be accurate for anyone who actually reads this. oops!)

I can understand if the death is frustrating but there's nothing particularly overwhelming about the character in question.

Though, looking at it again, the Invoke Darkness that killed you for 233 damage seemed like an unfortunately timed crit which does suck pretty hard.

[SageAcrin]

Cursed at L20 aren't that powerful regardless of their equipment. At least, not relatively.

Cursed have a pretty pronounced curve there, where they get an amazing amount of passives and gradually become stronger and stronger as they stack up and as their skills scale with stats(Which an amazing amount do, including some weird things like how the multipliers on their attack skills go up with Strength-most attack skills don't do that).

It fits thematically(They start out as this poor cursed hulk, and gradually take control over the curse over the course of the game.), but all physical classes have one (or a few) strong trick(s)-Rampage is great, but it's comparable to Shield Wall, Berserker, high levels of Mobile Defense, Stealth, etc.-and the general options of a Cursed run off a restrictive resource that you have to carefully manage, and they constantly have a healing modifier negative ranging from small to huge depending on the situation, as far as bosses go.

(They're good at mowing down weaker enemies at all points, and the Healing Modifier is basically nulled when they're doing that, but that doesn't matter too much as a trait until the Prides, where that on-kill regen really helps out.)

They end up really good, once you get to 35, 40, etc., but early? They're not that strong.

Granted, an L20 Cursed does indeed feel powerful relative to an L10 Cursed's relative power, which is quite bad. >_>

[jenx]

To be fair, if this: http://te4.org/characters/2460/tome/8e3 ... 1da2801549 is the cursed you were talking about, that equipment is... not really amazing in the slightest, and some of it's even outright bad at that level. Your resists weren't also that high, and looking at the last messages in the log you were being hit by darkness which you had no actual gear for. (though in the middle of posting this it just updated, so the remarks on equipment probably aren't going to be accurate for anyone who actually reads this. oops!)

I can understand if the death is frustrating but there's nothing particularly overwhelming about the character in question.

Though, looking at it again, the Invoke Darkness that killed you for 233 damage seemed like an unfortunately timed crit which does suck pretty hard.

Relative to many lvl 20 chars, he was strong. But my main objection was, I'm in a mid-tier dungeon which I'm having no problems with, and yet an event is placed there which is impossible.

So it is the placement of the event relative to the dungeon it is placed in.

I know the character is good relative to its char level as I have since cleaned out daikara and temporal rift etc without working up a sweat. Most chars I don't venture into temporal rift at this level.

And then the ancient elven ruins at lvl 25 with no problems.

And the resists still suck!

[darkgod]

And still you havent clearly told me what happened. Hundreds upon hundreds of damage doesnt tell me waht spells did it.

[jenx]

I don't have the log file unfortunately, but it would be the talents of the Rat Lich. He/She killed me.

[Hunter]

Events are completely optional. And some of them are quite deadly for certain characters. I've lost more than one reasonably strong character to a fire dragon event, getting slammed by multiple rares at once. They don't go away (except for ones in places like the High Peak, where you can't return) so if you're feeling even slightly uncertain, keep going and come back later. The whole idea of an event is great rewards for great danger, after all. The reward for that particular one was pretty nice for a midlevel mage, for instance.

Edit: Completely optional except for one, that I know of.

[Dwindlehop]

Never seen the Rat Lich, so I cannot comment on the balance there. I did decide to do the cultist event for the first time last night, so I will comment on that.

Shasshhiy's "You should flee" dialog let me know that I was about to do something stupid when I hunted her down, so I did not feel angry when she one-shotted me with Meteor Rain --- I just realized I had not pumped Con enough (barely crested 600HP@L31 as I was relying on Deflection/Antimagic). It did fill me with glee after I revived and induced her to hit a shadow with Meteor Rain from around a corner, then lock her down carefully with status effects and destroy her.

Events should be more dangerous than vaults. I don't think a random event should be a gimmee for a strong character, even when he's overleveled. The event should be clearly demarcated as "here there be (overpowered greater multi-hued) dragons" so new players do not feel cheated out of a life. Maybe a case could be made for making sure the player has the chance to acquire some form of sensing (much like the pickaxe is there for the taking from the lumberjacks) so a smart curious player can decide whether he has a shot against a given event or not.

Maybe that makes sense for Rat Lich or maybe I'm talking past jenx's point. I'm not sure.

[HousePet]

Can't be any worse than the intimidating cave.

Do you get the blue warning text when entering these minidungeons?

Maybe put a yes/no on the transition to make it clear these are basically a vault.