Tales of Maj'Eyal 1.5 Beta!

[ster]

Ok well no I never opened any fight with Trueshot. If you have read through this thread you would know that Trueshot isn't even working atm (or if you looked at your character sheet while playing).

Wait what? It's instant. significant (after being fixed) and you need to mark things to do anything interesting, why would you not always start with it?

[Frumple]

'Cause it's expensive and you can pretty often get more bang for that buck if you kick it on after you've stuck some debuffs on whatever you're trying to kill? Opening with it can be a bit wasteful, at times.

[themuffinthief]

Also why did you nerf Tumble?! Name one person anywhere ever who thought Tumble was too good.

New tumble cd 7, old tumble cd 15. That's a buff in my mind. 9% crit, who cares, stamina increase, meh.

Muh Concealment

It's a 2-turn buff that sucks.

3 turn buff, reapplyable with another cd for another 3 turns. Steady shot, calledshots, Vital shot, Pin, Shadowshot to reapply buff, Steady shot, headshot. Mix in whatever else you want for seasoning. Only randbosses have survived that, on insane, and even then rarely (and not even 30 for vital shot yet), and you have plenty of disengage tools to reset the chain.

Rapid Shot increases your effective defensive ability by giving enemies less time to attack between each of your turns. This is huge. Rapid Shot lets you land multiple shots in less time, which was always huge when fighting multiple enemies, but is even more huge in 1.5 because your silencing shot now requires a minimum of two player turns to land, and because your stun talent's range has been nerfed and your slow talent no longer hits movespeed which both mean that approaching enemies will walk at full speed and give you fewer shots. Rapid Shot now grants free turns, which is also huge, see above. Rapid Shot also increases movespeed, which is also huge.

Rapid shot is designed to let you fight with mobility, Aim is designed to kill them from out of their range so you dont need mobility. And even without rapidshot, snipers have plenty of mobility between low cooldown tumble, disengage, and escape (which also doubles as stamina recovery). Both do their job just fine imo.

Also being up in dudes' faces is not "a more dangerous situation," because Intuitive Shots exists. It's not like you have a choice anyway when monsters with mobility talents exist, Gnarg 0 cooldown Rush anyone?

Great. Melee, if they ever get to you, don't hurt you. They never get to you anyway, so how is this relevant? The real threats aren't melee...

Close range isn't a drawback, see above.

If being in range of an enemies attacks isn't a drawback, then what is? If enemies being able to attack you isn't a threat, what is? How do you ever die?

[ster]

And even without rapidshot, snipers have plenty of mobility between low cooldown tumble, disengage

i certainly want to be one shot by every enemy that checks armor for a couple escape abilities that do nothing if you're dead

Great. Melee, if they ever get to you, don't hurt you. They never get to you anyway, so how is this relevant? The real threats aren't melee...

yeah the enemy type that just straight up murders you if you have armor anywhere below their base damage isn't a real threat lol.

If being in range of an enemies attacks isn't a drawback, then what is? If enemies being able to attack you isn't a threat, what is? How do you ever die?

Because anything relevant has mobility talents or enough range?

[Sheila]

Silent blade doesn't work with new stealth , fix pls.
Also is there any reason for exhaustion to work as it does currently? Since cooldowns are back, maybe the duration could stand to be lower.

edit: Getting this LUA error popup upon having sand drop on me in SWL, no damage taken. Link
Playing Rogue if that matters, the error seems to be related to the mobility tree.

[darkgod]

New beta 3 is up: http://te4.org/beta-test
changelog since beta2: http://paste.net-core.org/raw/akuvasuhec

[Parcae2]

This isn't new, but I would like to point out that Writhing Psionic Mass is the best name for anything ever.
Edit: Testing the new generic tree right now. I don't understand Sadist at all. What does "the pain of your foes" mean? It seems to trigger when I kill something, but never stacks no matter how many enemies I kill.

[Hatome]

Wait what? It's instant. significant (after being fixed) and you need to mark things to do anything interesting, why would you not always start with it?

Untill the most recent beta it was only giving 10% attack speed and I didn't think that it was worth spending several class talents and so much stamina for that. DG has fixed it though, I am surprised no one noticed tbh. Getting up to 200% attack speed should be possibility no worries now. Not really sure how right Volt is about the new archer vs the old archer in terms of CC, I played the old archer when I first played tome a year ago so I don't remember it for peanuts. The new archers damage though, that is pretty decent.

[Razakai]

I didn't actually realize Tumble had the pin/daze stuff removed (I'm not the sole developer for a lot of these changes). OTOH, it is 1/2 of the original cooldown now. But Mobility getting screwed by pin/daze isn't very fun esp as Light Armor is still underwhelming so... might try to change that back. And step off the Exhaustion debuff a bit as it's not as strong as it was back in the old version. Instant mobility is pretty good though.

And voltteccer, I know you a) loathe Marksman on a fundamental level and b) shitpost about me in Discord endlessly, but like Micbran said I do actually listen to feedback and accept I'm not especially skilled at the game. I didn't demand to change Archer, I just made an addon for fun and DG requested I merge it. I'm not trying to ruin the game for anyone, and if people actually state their concerns I'll listen. We won't see eye-to-eye on things like marking as I enjoy it and you don't, but that's fine, we can try to compromise.

- I didn't do the light armor or TR numbers in their current state. If LA is still bad on Insane then we can bump the values up until it's roughly on par, but some of my changes did get nerfed so, not sure if that'll go in. We'll see, some of the other devs are talking about Light Armor atm.
- I disagree that Concealment is actually bad. It's a Leaves Tide with 3/10 uptime base (you're prob averaging about 44% chance) that you can reapply with other talents. Inferior to Agility maybe, but saying it 'sucks' is wrong. Even if you ignore the range/vision entirely it's got that + a free 200% extra damage on your next Steady Shot.
- New Archer straight up has more stamina regen and less costs nearly across the board vs old Archer, not counting TR/Sentinel which is a separate issue. Even Called Shots is only +5 stamina more, not double - and it hits much harder.
- What Archer debuffs actually got noticeably nerfed? Crippling Shot lost the slow, but like you said - only range 10 matters as everything closes the gap instantly after all. And the new one is AoE. Scatter is a shorter range, but gets a heavy knockback (and I don't like the idea of ranged classes getting long range+long duration stuns stuns generally). I'll give you Called Shots, but it's now a lot more damaging, and does a moveslow+disarm. Plus Archer gets Sentinel, sustain removal via Munitions, better debuff removal from Conditioning, Sentinel...
- Not sure why you think AoE has been nerfed. Old Bow-Archer had Volley of Arrows, Piercing Arrow, Dual Arrows (kinda aoe) and Scatter. New-Archer has Volley which does require a mark but hits harder even without the 50% bonus proc and has 1/2 the cooldown of VoA, Fragmentation Shot, Scatter Shot (albeit a bit weak), Explosive Shot, Explosive Ammunition/Venomous Alloyed Munition. Seems like a tossup?
- Also, I definitely didn't put Bull Shot in as a 'weak' talent, it's supposed to be the super damage shot for slings which intentionally rely on marks less. The damage buff you were commenting on was me undoing a heavy nerf I gave it in my addon after I buffed the dmg of Snipe.

So this makes it kinda hard to exactly understand the 'archer is now skirmisher' comment, as I don't think they have lost as much AoE/debuff power as you said. All archers using sling/shield is a problem though. Maybe Rapid Shot should lose some of the movespeed if it's that imbalancing, and get compensated elsewhere. So one thing I'm considering now is easing off the mark requirements a bit. Headshot still requires it (as it's whole thing is 0 CD but RNG), but you can Volley without a mark (but using a mark gives the 2nd 50% hit), and you can Called Shots without a mark, but it only silences. And seeing as it's no npc, we can up the cooldown by +1. Relating to marks, maybe Concealment should instead let you use marked shots without a mark + buff their damage, so Sniper's unique thing is firing off a full-power Called Shots at nigh-instant travel time. So those might a) make Sniper better b) make marks less reliable c) give Archer some of it's old debuff power and aoe back.
Light Armor/Mobility etc is a bit of a separate issue as it affects a lot of classes so not sure about that yet. It's definitely not as good as I want though. This relates to Intuitive Shots getting nerfed - consider the addon version had them using heavy armor Mobility so they def didn't need 40% IS, but now they lack that so...
Is Escape super OP? I mean, Archer had a real lack of defensive CDs before that weren't infusions or debuffing stuff into oblivion. I guess I could fixed_cd it to not buff Shalore yet again though. Maybe just upping the CD a bit as 20 is kinda short.
Sentinel being so incredibly good that 'use Sentinel+only Steady/Headshot' beats 'actually use your talents as intended'. I love the concept, but maybe just upping the cooldown so it's not spammable and then giving Archer some debuff power back would be best.

[Frumple]

Idle thought for sentinel: Make it a feed-style effect that either just has a % chance per talent used (somewhere between talent-fail poison, whatever that thing's called, and burning hex in effectiveness, probably), or interrupts every 3rd or 4th or somethin' talent used, over a longer duration. Could have an indefinite duration so long as LoS, but take a few turns to ramp up to full effectiveness (which would be capped, of course). Otherwise same effect, still interrupt + mild CD. Tweak the numbers so effectiveness is roughly the same or a little toned back, but you have no reason to be constantly spamming the ability. Still be sentinel-y, but less of a mental image of an archer cycling caffeine shots as they perk up then get bored again over and over and over. Also less buttons to press while still having to pay attention to how you use it! Everyone wins. Well, except arguably the person coding it :V

[ster]

- I didn't do the light armor or TR numbers in their current state. If LA is still bad on Insane then we can bump the values up until it's roughly on par, but some of my changes did get nerfed so, not sure if that'll go in. We'll see, some of the other devs are talking about Light Armor atm..

(please dont buff light armor's defense boost any more because enemies with it are awful)

[Razakai]

Yeah defense is fundamentally bad on higher diffs as bosses just get too much acc. I'd buff TR instead or maybe give crit reduction or something.

[The Tapir]

I'm having issues with logging in on my online profile with the OSX version of the beta, as even when I'm 100% certain that my username and password are correct all it says is "invalid login, please try again." The PC version of the beta works fine so I'm not sure what the problem is.

[themuffinthief]

Is Escape super OP?

No, escape feels really good. It's the ultimate oh shit button for I need to bail, now. I really like that it refills your stamina also, so if you're escaping to reset cds, you can reengage without resting for stamina. Is it strong? Yes, but all utility/mobility talents are strong. I think it does it's job.

Sentinel being so incredibly good that 'use Sentinel+only Steady/Headshot' beats 'actually use your talents as intended'. I love the concept, but maybe just upping the cooldown so it's not spammable and then giving Archer some debuff power back would be best.

Yeah...100% talent usage denial is super op. See axe kick (but brawlers don't have other op elements and are melee so it doesn't break the class). On a ranged class, it's insane. And 1 in 4 turns you have it up? I'd either increase the cooldown to 8+ or make it not 100% failure chance.

[ster]

(but brawlers don't have other op elements and are melee so it doesn't break the class).

brawler used to be able to clear all of madness except argoniel lol and the only reason they can't kill her is SoTW is full immunity against grapple and axe kick

(it would be able to actually win madness in 1.5 if it hadn't been nerfed arbitrarily by killing reflex defense and getting bad new mobility instead)

You also highly overestimate how bad it is to play melee.