Some newbie questions

[Ferala]

I am doing some research on different (roguelike) combat systems for my own roguelike that i started years ago and abandoned. And so i stumbled on ToME 4. Problem is that i have really started playing this game as i liked it immediately (especially the talent system).

I started with playing a few rogues. I went for the stun abilities + knifes and managed to get to lvl 5 a few times. Furthest i got was being killed (almost 1-shotted) by Bill the troll.

Then i started an arches and noticed it was a lot easier to stay alive and do lots more damage.

My questions are (i don't think they can be considered spoiling):

- Will increasing Create Ammo talent, increase my chances of finding ammo or improve the ammo quality i find? The text doesnt seem to give a clue for the next level. When i had the elm longbow it created elm arrows, but now i have a yew longbow it doesn't create yew arrows (if they even exist).
- I read about people doing quests. Where do i find the NPC's that give them? I have been in Bree and the town further to the SE, but both didnt have NPCs i could talk to.
- I found a really good dagger in the shop (like 29-35 damage instead of 5-6), but i couldn't afford it. Then i died and the shop didnt have it anymore in the next game. Does the game refresh inventory on a daily? basis? Is it worth camping the shop to wait for such a good weapon? I havent found any weapon even nearly as good in the dungeon(s).
- Is damage of bows only influenced by the arrows you use? I notice bows don't have damage dice in the description like melee weapons have. The main difference i found between for example an elm longbow and an ash/yew longbow is the firing range.
- I found a lot of info/spoilers about ToME but i have a feeling most are about an old version of ToME or even Angband. Is there a place where i can read organized spoilers (like they exist for NetHack)?

As you can see i am a ToME newbie, but i have to say i really like it.

[Taxorgian]

Will increasing Create Ammo talent, increase my chances of finding ammo or improve the ammo quality i find? The text doesnt seem to give a clue for the next level. When i had the elm longbow it created elm arrows, but now i have a yew longbow it doesn't create yew arrows (if they even exist).

I think this is considered spoily, so highlight if you want to see: Ammo creation gives the same quality arrows in any case. You have a better chance at good arrows if you do it in a "deep" area (Angolwen or Minas Tirith are both deep areas and are totally safe).

I read about people doing quests. Where do i find the NPC's that give them? I have been in Bree and the town further to the SE, but both didnt have NPCs i could talk to.

At least for a long while there's only one that doesn't appear automatically on the map. The other post was about adding some of these in beta5 (or later). Spoiler: Walk around the mountain to the left of the old Forest to get one very valuable quest. DON'T SELL APPARENTLY USELESS ARTIFACTS UNTIL YOU SEE HIM. After clearing Tol Falas and being ambushed, go to the big building in Minas Tirith and enter the lowest room. This opens up Moria.

I found a really good dagger in the shop (like 29-35 damage instead of 5-6), but i couldn't afford it. Then i died and the shop didnt have it anymore in the next game. Does the game refresh inventory on a daily? basis? Is it worth camping the shop to wait for such a good weapon? I havent found any weapon even nearly as good in the dungeon(s).

The inventory is restocked frequently. If you're playing an archer, though, even a slime-covered mithril dagger won't ever beat good arrows.

Is damage of bows only influenced by the arrows you use? I notice bows don't have damage dice in the description like melee weapons have. The main difference i found between for example an elm longbow and an ash/yew longbow is the firing range.

You are correct. Bow quality affects your maximum range instead of damage.

I found a lot of info/spoilers about ToME but i have a feeling most are about an old version of ToME or even Angband. Is there a place where i can read organized spoilers (like they exist for NetHack)?

T4 is still under ACTIVE development (new betas every week or two) and the endgame is not complete yet. It is a really great looking game, but is not really in "complete" form yet.

[Ferala]

Thanks for the answers!

I finally got killed by the Minotaur. I was standing next to him with full health and i assumed i could use my class/race ability haste before doing anything else. The Miontaur thought otherwise and got a double hit on me that got me to -54. Lvl 11 with my first archer isnt that bad i hope.

- Not sure if this is a spoiler, but can one find torches with a bigger range than 2? I found another light source but didnt check its stats as i already had one and sold it. That would have saved my ass. From a distance he would have ben dead meat i think.

[Ferala]

Hmm, the first thing that happened to me when i started a new lvl 1 char is a cry for help. I answered yes and was totally massacred by lvl9+ mobs.

I think a 'random' quest like that should be balanced with the player's level. Now the question could have been better asked "Do you want to die? Yes?No". There is no indication of how hard it will be when answering Yes.

[Taxorgian]

That particular quest will hopefully have a minimal character level (or something similar) in beta5. It is, indeed, instant death for any player of character level 1. There is another one that appears as a downstairs randomly. If you explore it, it winds up being instant death for almost everyone.

Make sure you take the Pinning Arrows talent; it is mandatory for big nasties. If you end up beside that guy next time read a scroll of tport (or phase door if you don't have the better one) to get space. Pin him, pincushion him, and then get a pretty hat from the steak tartare.

[Taxorgian]

Oh and there are bright lanterns (3 instead of 2). And rarer other things too....

[Ferala]

Make sure you take the Pinning Arrows talent; it is mandatory for big nasties. If you end up beside that guy next time read a scroll of tport (or phase door if you don't have the better one) to get space. Pin him, pincushion him, and then get a pretty hat from the steak tartare.

I had a scroll of teleport and lots of phase door (i had already used a phase door when he was on 10%), but i wasn't totally sure what teleport would do. Detect monsters is also nice but they are quite expensive in the shop.

So far i have practically no problems killing any monster except the bosses. The difference in difficulty is immense. Normal mobs hit for like 15 and some bosses hit for 150. This difference is maybe a bit extreme. I would have liked a few nasty (doable) mobs to get some experience before you face the bosses. On the other hand, dying a lot on the bosses can be considered experience.

- I was a bit disappointed by the piercing shot ability. Every time i used it i only hit the first mob in line. But maybe i used it wrong and should i have aimed at the last mob in the line instead of the front one.

I think i indeed found a brightly lit lantern and sold it.

[Baker]

I had a scroll of teleport and lots of phase door (i had already used a phase door when he was on 10%), but i wasn't totally sure what teleport would do. Detect monsters is also nice but they are quite expensive in the shop.

Phase Door is a short-range teleport that will probably only put you on the other side of the room or an adjacent corridor, while proper Teleport is long-range and can throw you to the opposite side of the level. Where you actually go is random, so if you absolutely need some space use Teleport, it has a minimum range and will send you at least 10 or so squares no matter what.

So far i have practically no problems killing any monster except the bosses. The difference in difficulty is immense. Normal mobs hit for like 15 and some bosses hit for 150. This difference is maybe a bit extreme. I would have liked a few nasty (doable) mobs to get some experience before you face the bosses. On the other hand, dying a lot on the bosses can be considered experience.

Yes, balancing is still a bit off. The next beta will have completely reworked damage formulas, which should make this kind of thing a bit more fair. Right now, melee classes are really hard to keep alive (at least, that's what I think). [Edit: Oh hey, beta5 has just been put up for download. Try it again and tell us if you feel the balance is better than before.]

- I was a bit disappointed by the piercing shot ability. Every time i used it i only hit the first mob in line. But maybe i used it wrong and should i have aimed at the last mob in the line instead of the front one.

Yes, that's correct. You have to aim at the last monster you want to hit, due to the way diagonal aiming works in ToME. You can shoot at enemies slightly behind and to the side from the enemies before them, and if you don't manually specify which direction the arrow should go the game won't know.

[Ferala]

Good good, i will use that version from now on.

But, it is not only the balancing of the mobs themselves, but also the creation of them.

I just entered Trollshaws(1) and now i encounter a Mountain troll thundered, lvl 20 elite boss. The encounter is still in progress but i have a feeling my lvl 1 character will not survive the fight to tell about it.

[darkgod]

Wohh that's probably the worst case of bad luck I saw!

[Ferala]

And then i thought Nethack was mean

[Challtdow]

I've seen the same thing with all my new characters in beta 5. When I start in Trollshaws, the monsters I see have been lvl 7-15 over about 5 different characters so far. If I leave and come back, the new monsters spawn at lvl 1 like normal.

Chall T. Dow

[Baker]

Are ALL the monsters high level when this happens, or just a few? Out Of Depth generation is supposed to occur now and then, but not with all the enemies of on a level. If it's the former then you might want to file a bug report, something like this shouldn't happen.

[Challtdow]

I haven't checked all off them. I tend to run away very quickly when that type of thing happens. I'll start another character and try to check multiple enemies.

Chall T. Dow

EDIT: Guess the RNG just had it in for those first few characters. I just started another guy and everything I found was at normal levels.

[Ferala]

Are ALL the monsters high level when this happens, or just a few? Out Of Depth generation is supposed to occur now and then, but not with all the enemies of on a level. If it's the former then you might want to file a bug report, something like this shouldn't happen.

It wasn't all mobs. I had killed 2-3 normal mobs before i met it. (still in Tome4 btw).
Even though i think out of depth monsters is ok, a lvl 20 mob in the starting area is a bit over the top.