Just started playing again after a year long break or so.

[Ghaleon]

I was never super active at this game but I did complete it in regular mode more than once. Anyway I'm starting again and now I'm getting trounced by a couple of things no matter what class I play, and what approach I take to the same problem...

Summoner elite enemies, or egos, or randarts, or whatever they're called. I never really got the terminology down for unusual enemies. Anyway the ones that summon a horse (it says hound I think but it looks more like a zebra to me), bug, red drake...iirc one even summoned a hydra looking thing.

Anyway, they always stomp me flat. I've tried rushing the summoner, I die in a move or two, I try running away and killing the adds one at a time, they just re-summon as soon as they die. I try aoeing everything, I die in 2 moves. Even characters I think are good to go, and have no issues doing things that are supposed to be hard (like surviving Ambush!), all it takes is one summoner and I drop dead before I can even try and blink away. Are they accidentally op in the current build or something?

The other thing which is relatively risky are those gold chests. I mean they were always fairly dangerous, but they generally were never much tougher than the boss of a dungeon, but now they consitantly are more powerful, and god forbid you open a chest with multiple purple enemies. I can generally kill them more often than not, but it's always pretty risky now, and if they have as ummoner in them, good grief. Now I'm thinking of just ignoring every gold chest, which seems kinda wrong since I consistently beat ambush, and I never have trouble with vaults, not even dreadfell ones in my 20s. what is going on? If there's some rule of thumb or whatever to greatly help with my issues I'd appreciate advice!

[Zicher]

Oh yes, the rares can be a major pain in the rear, that's for sure.

For starters, if you see a rare enemy (or randboss - you'll know them when you meet them), always, ALWAYS use the Inspect Creature command on them before doing anything else. That way, you'll see what they have in store for you and what your best options against them are. Keep in mind that running away in time is always an option, especially against a class you have trouble with.

About that summoner type - unless they have some base creature type with good default defenses, they tend to be quite squishy. If you are melee, move in quickly and get in an early stun, which would lock their summoning talents (some of them at least). If you are ranged, stay at range. That way you can easily dispose of the war hound before it reaches you, and ritches are squishy again. The tougher summons (drake and hydra) are a different matter. This is, of course, IMHO only.

Oh, and those gold chests. They summon either nothing, or four normal, zone-appropriate creatures, or up to two rares, or a randboss. Of course, these chests fight may be tough as nails, but at least you have one advantage - these summoned creatures do not act immediately upon opening the chest, and you have the first move (after the Inspect Creature command, of course!). You can always teleport out.

[Coldbringer]

Would be helpful to know what classes you are playing and what levels you are running into these summoner rare monsters. Did you try to move up to nightmare or are you still on normal difficulty?

ALways have an escape skill or inscription ready to go. Phase door, teleport, ect. And have some defenisve skills & items too. Shielding rune, Healing infusion, stuff like that. Torques that reduce physical damage are a favorite of mine. That's like 7 turns of near invulnerability. Unless you get bursted super hard. The summoned warhounds generally can't hurt you through them. They are great to use a turn before you open a golden chest too.

The ritch flamespitter summons do a lot of ranged elemental damage but have low HP so you can kill them fast. The spider/bug summons afflict you with a large poison DOT. The Ice Tree summons do an AOE cold move that amusingly destroy the summoners army.

Could you paste a link to your character that died to them? We could see what your HPs were, what your equipment was, make some suggestions.

[Izawwlgood]

This is why I play on Exploration mode. I got tired of randomly turning a corner and being face to face with a boss and zero recourse.

A number of fights I recall losing to were basically activate shield, take one shot at boss, poof, dead.

[Ghaleon]

Thanks guys, I know I wasn't really supplying enough information, which is why I was asking for rules of thumb rather than any kind of specific formula. Lately I've been playing an arcane blade, a berserker, and cursed. I did not keep the combat logs for any of the previous deaths however.

Currently I'm playing a cursed and I'm feeling confident (once again) about to begin dreadfell (which is surprisingly not too difficult often enough vaults included except the master. He's always pretty hard for me because I *ALWAYS* find him right at floor 9's staircase.. so I often start surrounded with him and a purple or two, BEFORE he summons like 8 undead.. gah... And teleporting doesn't really help in that situation because it always dumps me into some room with mobs of its own, and the master often teleports after me in a turn or 2, and the undead he spawns knows where I am so they come trucking after me bringing the whole darn floor along with them it seems. ONE TIME I got to fight him without bumping into a dozen adds at the same time, and that time was like a vacation...I kinda wish he had a designated spawn point kinda like korpol/the inquisitor does at the south end of their dungeons.

I started off playing this game like I usually do, but after a few deaths to random...well. random uniques, I 'learned' to inspect them as you suggested. But frankly the depth this game has could drown the ocean. There's so much effing stuff and talents and passives and and.. even when you inspect them I don't think it shows the cooldown.. it just kinda makes my brain explode. So I told myself I'll worry about inspecting monsters after I'm more familiar with the game, which I kinda got to the point of before I quit, but now it's been awhile and I forgot a bunch of junk again.

I kinda take baby steps though, I DO pay attention to if they resist whatever, and if they are summoners, or hate users, or vim users. etc... IIRC last time I played it was always the hate users that would kill me alarmingly fast, summoners notsomuch... now hate users don't really cause me too much grief, and summoners do, go figure.

[Coldbringer]

When inspecting a monster the most important thing to look at, besides resists/armour is sustains.

What sustains a rare or unique monster has can tip you off as to what they will do and what you need to beat them. For instance, if one has "Uttercold" listed that means it's an archmage and will be using cold spells against you that will penetrate a % of your cold resistance. If it has "Bone Shield" it's a corruptor or reaver and will be casting blight/disease spells at you, and bone spells that do physical damage. Using damage over time skills is the fastest way to remove the bone shield so you can take their HPs out. If they have Fearscape get your fire resist gear on.

Gloves of Dispersion give you an extra skill you can use to remove those sustains with and substantially weaken your opponent for the upcoming fight. Lots of shops have these

[rangerjeff]

I'm with you Ghaleon, I haven't played most of the classes yet so all the information you get on the tool-tip of the boss about sustains and egos mostly goes over my head. I just started using the Inspect Creature option and that's been a big help since you can tab across their character sheet and see exactly what skills they might hit you with, and get tool-tips on the skills.

I used to always open the Gold Chests, but every once in a while something really nasty comes out, so now I don't open them unless I'm feeling very tough and have the means to escape and remove negative conditions. A wild infusion of physical and mental is golden, though I don't find one every game... Using one of the physical torques and all your other buffs that require a turn to activate is also the way to go if you really want to get at the loot in the chests. IMO, it's rarely worth it.

And I loathe teleport for the reason you describe in the fights with the Master, too dangerous. Okay for early levels when you don't have too much invested in a game yet, but I switch to Movement infusions ASAP.

I've had no trouble whatsoever with rare Summoners, as said, they're squishy. But yes, you have to be prepared to flee if you're overwhelmed. Reposition and get the tactical advantage (mobs can't surround you in a corridor, and digging is an important tool, use it when you need to create or get to a favorable battlefield, or to snipe,) or just run away.

[ohioastro]

I'd like to echo the sentiment of the OP. I've been playing this game for a long time, and every once in a while you hit versions where the monsters are grossly over-tuned. It's one thing to have the big boss battles be tough; it's something completely different, and a lot less fun, to have random rares one or two hit you. This is just bad game design, especially for newer players who won't even know what hit them.

In this version the rares are far too lethal. You shouldn't be required, even at low level, to play around them - especially since the rewards are usually lousy relative to risk.

DG: this costs you players; please revert to the more reasonable balance that you've achieved in other versions.

[Zizzo]

I'd like to echo the sentiment of the OP. I've been playing this game for a long time, and every once in a while you hit versions where the monsters are grossly over-tuned. It's one thing to have the big boss battles be tough; it's something completely different, and a lot less fun, to have random rares one or two hit you. This is just bad game design, especially for newer players who won't even know what hit them.

In this version the rares are far too lethal. You shouldn't be required, even at low level, to play around them - especially since the rewards are usually lousy relative to risk.

No Rare Monsters. `S what I've been saying ever since rares were added. (Interestingly, I notice there's a newer No More Rare Monsters addon that appears to do the same thing, though I haven't tested it.)

[Coldbringer]

I'd like to echo the sentiment of the OP. I've been playing this game for a long time, and every once in a while you hit versions where the monsters are grossly over-tuned. It's one thing to have the big boss battles be tough; it's something completely different, and a lot less fun, to have random rares one or two hit you. This is just bad game design, especially for newer players who won't even know what hit them.

In this version the rares are far too lethal. You shouldn't be required, even at low level, to play around them - especially since the rewards are usually lousy relative to risk.

DG: this costs you players; please revert to the more reasonable balance that you've achieved in other versions.

It's just really hard to balance. Sometimes the game feels too easy and you're rolling, then you run into a tough rare and it's very challenging.

What is unbeatable for one character may be easy for another. I do agree the rares in starting areas can be a bit much. Had a few characters get one or two shotted, to my surprise. You just don't have the tools to counter it at that point.

But the very things that make it frustrating make it interesting. I want an exciting, deadly game where any turn around any corner can be the end of me, constantly keeping me on my toes. The characters that survive are the lucky ones, the strong ones.

If you think TOME is bad, you should try ADOM - that game is really brutal.