I've been playing my first Shadowblade whose opening strike is Stealth + Shadowstep with dual daggers (which I believe is fairly standard). My first death was to Shadowstep an enemy with Bone Shield, in a place where I couldn't teleport. Then I got pinned or something and couldn't batter my way out of it before dying.
My question is this: Can I rely on Shadowstep if I use the right build and tactics, or do I have to have a build that can fight bosses from full health to death in a toe to toe fight without Shadowstep? Please suggest appropriate tactics, because I'm not getting how you do hit and run consistently throughout the game.
(To give you an idea of my skill/understanding level: I'm still trying for my first win on normal difficulty after playing for over a year, but I never got past the orc prides with the few characters that made it that far.)
Shadowstep tactical help
Moderator: Moderator
Re: Shadowstep tactical help
You can't rely on anything. Always have a backup.
My feedback meter decays into coding. Give me feedback and I make mods.
Re: Shadowstep tactical help
I do not have much experience with Shadowblades, I can, however, give some general advice.
If you play a (supposedly) rather squishy Stealth-based build and do not plan on staying in combat long (which, as a strategy, can work fine!), you need to make sure to have a reliable means of escape whenever you engage, one option being to kill any dangerous opponent within the first few turns of combat (escaping from corpses tends to be rather easy).
Usually, if that fails, teleportation works nicely to get away.
However, as HousePet said, never rely on anything. Some pieces of advice, in no particular order:
1. Do not neglect constitution; a bunch of hp (and Thick Skin!) help a lot to survive nasty hits and thorns damage.
2. Check the talents of rare and boss enemies. Avoid enemies you cannot possibly defeat at that time.
3. Carry some means of escape beside teleportation; a Movement infusion can be very helpful.
4. Have some way to get rid of pins and stuns.
5. You might want a torque or amulet of psychoportation; either works reliably even while stunned.
6. Playing on normal, do not underestimate Defense. Shadowblades can get VERY hard to hit.
7. Having a higher than normal global and/or movement speed can help a lot with getting away, obviously.
8. Turning a corner and restealthing is supposed to work nicely, too, but I have not yet played a stealth-based character, so this is only hearsay.
9. If you feel no-teleportation-zones are too dangerous, avoid them. Don't enter vaults, or use Ambuscade to do so.
Most of this is probably not new to you, but sometimes it helps to be remembered. Also, I'm sure players more experienced than I will have more advice to offer.
If you play a (supposedly) rather squishy Stealth-based build and do not plan on staying in combat long (which, as a strategy, can work fine!), you need to make sure to have a reliable means of escape whenever you engage, one option being to kill any dangerous opponent within the first few turns of combat (escaping from corpses tends to be rather easy).
Usually, if that fails, teleportation works nicely to get away.
However, as HousePet said, never rely on anything. Some pieces of advice, in no particular order:
1. Do not neglect constitution; a bunch of hp (and Thick Skin!) help a lot to survive nasty hits and thorns damage.
2. Check the talents of rare and boss enemies. Avoid enemies you cannot possibly defeat at that time.
3. Carry some means of escape beside teleportation; a Movement infusion can be very helpful.
4. Have some way to get rid of pins and stuns.
5. You might want a torque or amulet of psychoportation; either works reliably even while stunned.
6. Playing on normal, do not underestimate Defense. Shadowblades can get VERY hard to hit.
7. Having a higher than normal global and/or movement speed can help a lot with getting away, obviously.
8. Turning a corner and restealthing is supposed to work nicely, too, but I have not yet played a stealth-based character, so this is only hearsay.
9. If you feel no-teleportation-zones are too dangerous, avoid them. Don't enter vaults, or use Ambuscade to do so.
Most of this is probably not new to you, but sometimes it helps to be remembered. Also, I'm sure players more experienced than I will have more advice to offer.
-
grayswandir
- Uruivellas
- Posts: 708
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:55 pm
Re: Shadowstep tactical help
Rogue types are definitely hit and run oriented. Generally I'd pop willful combat if you have it, shadowstep in, deadly strikes, then flurry/dual strike/maybe cripple for as long as I felt comfortable being there. Then I'd movement infusion or targeted phase door away (I'd probably shoot for having both by level 20ish, because you can be silenced or get surrounded).
For this kind of strategy you'd probably pick up Essence of Speed late game so you can get more hits in.
I also like to pick up stone alchemy for gem portal (or play a dwarf for their equivalent).
Of course, shadowblades, being half mages, also have some other play styles available to them. (The whole stealth illuminate thing, and probably others).
For this kind of strategy you'd probably pick up Essence of Speed late game so you can get more hits in.
I also like to pick up stone alchemy for gem portal (or play a dwarf for their equivalent).
Of course, shadowblades, being half mages, also have some other play styles available to them. (The whole stealth illuminate thing, and probably others).
Addons: Arcane Blade Tweaks, Fallen Race, Monk Class, Weapons Pack
Currently working on Elementals. It's a big project, so any help would be appreciated.
Currently working on Elementals. It's a big project, so any help would be appreciated.
Re: Shadowstep tactical help
certain builds definitly strongly rely on hit, run and hide tactics. I had a nightmare dual wield shadowblade that made it to the final boss with 1-2 deaths then got crushed because I couldn't find a place to hide in the inner sanctum.
On normal teleport is really useful and I would usually try to get magic to 20 by level four so I could pick it up. Soon as you know your target isn't going to die before causing you damage, or lots of statuses, hit the escape button. Be careful teleporting when you are already severely damaged, as you will often land in a mob that will finish you off.
and as said earlier movement infusion and controlled phase door are also really helpful
edit, I see you were not able to use teleport. Have a way to get rid of statuses, shalore timeless helps later game.
On normal teleport is really useful and I would usually try to get magic to 20 by level four so I could pick it up. Soon as you know your target isn't going to die before causing you damage, or lots of statuses, hit the escape button. Be careful teleporting when you are already severely damaged, as you will often land in a mob that will finish you off.
and as said earlier movement infusion and controlled phase door are also really helpful
edit, I see you were not able to use teleport. Have a way to get rid of statuses, shalore timeless helps later game.
Re: Shadowstep tactical help
Interesting. It sounds like I need to have a more flexible variety of escapes. Would it be fair to say that if I have 2 Regen and 1 Wild:physical infusion that I should replace the weaker regen with Movement infusion and run away as soon as I start losing health? I'm just concerned that the time spent elsewhere will allow the Bone Shield to grow back, or other bosses to heal up.
Re: Shadowstep tactical help
It means that you should have more than three infusions. 
As for bone shield, flurry helps a lot with that. If something refuses to die AND heals up AND you can't just leave it alone, you might want to try using defensive cooldowns and maybe a heroism infusion to beat it. Infusion slots are really, really important, all in all.
As for bone shield, flurry helps a lot with that. If something refuses to die AND heals up AND you can't just leave it alone, you might want to try using defensive cooldowns and maybe a heroism infusion to beat it. Infusion slots are really, really important, all in all.
Re: Shadowstep tactical help
It is important to understand that movement infusions are more than just a way to escape but that they are also preventative.
For melee builds having two movement infusion should be your standard goal, unless you can somehow compensate for their lack. This is not entirely for the movement, although that is also very good.
You don't necessarily have two so that you can run twice, rather you often preload one, do something, and use the second as an escape and/or distance closer. Thus if you are getting pinned and it messes up your shadowstep, you should pop one movement infusion solely for the purpose of avoiding pin/daze/stun.
Most new players don't really realize that for the first 25 levels or so you can completely substitute a wild:physical with a movement infusion. You rarely desparately need to cleanse a bleed or poison. You generally use wild:phys to stop stuns and pins. Since movements prevent all stuns/pins/daze/freeze for 4-7 (or so) turns they are actually superior to a wild:phys.
On my melee Madness adventurer winner I used 1 movement, 1 shield, and 1 wild:mental for the first section of the game. Then used 2 movements, 1 wild:mental/phys, when unstoppable matured and I no longer used shields. Then once I got Draconic Will I swapped the wild for a heroism. Keeping in mind the build eventually had meta at lvl 36 for magic cures (generally you can skimp in the early levels on magic cures as its mostly for diseases and you can go entire zones in early game without seeing magic diseases), but even without Meta/disperse magic, you can simply use a wild:mental/magic as movements are generally fine as long as you can handle the damage of certain nasty bleeds/poisons (like mucus on oozemancer rares etc.)
As you can see movements are extraordinarily protective when used right. Many people will tell you to get more infusion slots which is often a good choice, but the most important thing here is to understand that unless you have a really really good reason not to you should have 2 movements as melee.
For melee builds having two movement infusion should be your standard goal, unless you can somehow compensate for their lack. This is not entirely for the movement, although that is also very good.
You don't necessarily have two so that you can run twice, rather you often preload one, do something, and use the second as an escape and/or distance closer. Thus if you are getting pinned and it messes up your shadowstep, you should pop one movement infusion solely for the purpose of avoiding pin/daze/stun.
Most new players don't really realize that for the first 25 levels or so you can completely substitute a wild:physical with a movement infusion. You rarely desparately need to cleanse a bleed or poison. You generally use wild:phys to stop stuns and pins. Since movements prevent all stuns/pins/daze/freeze for 4-7 (or so) turns they are actually superior to a wild:phys.
On my melee Madness adventurer winner I used 1 movement, 1 shield, and 1 wild:mental for the first section of the game. Then used 2 movements, 1 wild:mental/phys, when unstoppable matured and I no longer used shields. Then once I got Draconic Will I swapped the wild for a heroism. Keeping in mind the build eventually had meta at lvl 36 for magic cures (generally you can skimp in the early levels on magic cures as its mostly for diseases and you can go entire zones in early game without seeing magic diseases), but even without Meta/disperse magic, you can simply use a wild:mental/magic as movements are generally fine as long as you can handle the damage of certain nasty bleeds/poisons (like mucus on oozemancer rares etc.)
As you can see movements are extraordinarily protective when used right. Many people will tell you to get more infusion slots which is often a good choice, but the most important thing here is to understand that unless you have a really really good reason not to you should have 2 movements as melee.
Re: Shadowstep tactical help
One of the best things to chew through a bone shield fast is to get something like alchemist gloves that do 5 separate elemental hits per attack or some other way to stack many damage types.Fhtagn wrote:It means that you should have more than three infusions.
As for bone shield, flurry helps a lot with that. If something refuses to die AND heals up AND you can't just leave it alone, you might want to try using defensive cooldowns and maybe a heroism infusion to beat it. Infusion slots are really, really important, all in all.
No matter how crappy the damage of each element they will remove one bone shield. Its quite easily possible to have 5 elements per hit and while the total overall may be nothing write home about they will utterly destroy a boneshield. With 5 elements with melee on hit, one bump attack will completely clear a full bone shield, and one flurry will be mostly full damage.
If you know you will be fighting corruptors/reavers with bone shield consider swapping some equipment that adds a few different types of damage to your melee, even if the damage is really poor for you level, it essentially allows you to alpha strike through something whose main value is preventing large alpha strikes.
Re: Shadowstep tactical help
That is a very useful thing to know. What changes after level 25 to make them useful again?cctobias wrote:Most new players don't really realize that for the first 25 levels or so you can completely substitute a wild:physical with a movement infusion. You rarely desparately need to cleanse a bleed or poison. You generally use wild:phys to stop stuns and pins. Since movements prevent all stuns/pins/daze/freeze for 4-7 (or so) turns they are actually superior to a wild:phys.
Re: Shadowstep tactical help
I was not aware of that. Thanks!cctobias wrote: No matter how crappy the damage of each element they will remove one bone shield.
There are items that can do that for single-element ranged casters, too. E.g., try Agony/Hateful Whisper with the Elemental Ring on corruptor packs, for maximum fun. Clears a bunch of insane-level bone shields in no time, and prevents bone shield regeneration too. And you can do all this from behind a wall!Fhtagn wrote:I was not aware of that. Thanks!cctobias wrote: No matter how crappy the damage of each element they will remove one bone shield.
Re: Shadowstep tactical help
Its not really any sort of hard and fast rule or switch over, but in the higher levels you can just start to really get loaded up with conditions, so condition removal or general prevention becomes more and more someting to focus on.dukereg wrote:That is a very useful thing to know. What changes after level 25 to make them useful again?cctobias wrote:Most new players don't really realize that for the first 25 levels or so you can completely substitute a wild:physical with a movement infusion. You rarely desparately need to cleanse a bleed or poison. You generally use wild:phys to stop stuns and pins. Since movements prevent all stuns/pins/daze/freeze for 4-7 (or so) turns they are actually superior to a wild:phys.
In lower levels you basically just need to cover a base, i.e. make sure you take a wild:mental to the maze etc. In general, you rarely need to cover the magical base in lower levels. In the rare case that you need poison removal, usually, a regen infusion will work instead although something like the talent failure poison are a pain in the ass.
Anyway the main thing is at higher levels you could get loaded up with multiple bleeds and multiple types of poison and in lower levels while you may see anyone of these, you usually only get one or two at a time and can deal with it ok. Whereas being confused in the maze boss battle can just flat out get you killed. Getting stunned can also flat out get you killed (as you do crap damage, key abilities may get CDed, and your move is very reduced). So for the most part in the lower levels you just need to avoid the things that will flat out be potentially fatal.
Later on conditions becomes more common and start apply what Guild Wars people would call "pressure" and you will need to find some way to deal with it.
Also while blind is common in the lower levels, it is almost always from a sun infusion which put 2 physical conditions on you and so wild:phys kind of suck for them anyway, since its 50/50 they actually remove the blind. Its better to simply pop your movement infusion and run away as soon as something suns you.
Re: Shadowstep tactical help
cctobias's explanation about movement infusions is full of win. This get's a bit of topic since my ongoing character is a marauder on madness difficulty, but let me just say how much track + movement infusion rock:
1) Use track, you'll see a nasty rare/unique/boss
2)Plan accordingly to what you see (run away, re-position, close the gap, stay in place AND DO NOTICE that a movement infusion helps with all of these -whicever you choose to do!!).
3) If it's a melee guy who is indeed in need of being murdered, then, you should know that at this difficulty it will stun you if given a slightest chance (and no riotborn alone won't save you). On madness you can get nice things like a 17 turn stun on tier-1 dungeons (wtf). Also the worst melee mobs seem to be able to stun/daze you like every other turn. But with movement infusions you are completely immune for x turns if used in advance which is easy enough with such a good tracking talent like track.
4) Murder dem dudes, much easier without -70 % all damage stun.
1) Use track, you'll see a nasty rare/unique/boss
2)Plan accordingly to what you see (run away, re-position, close the gap, stay in place AND DO NOTICE that a movement infusion helps with all of these -whicever you choose to do!!).
3) If it's a melee guy who is indeed in need of being murdered, then, you should know that at this difficulty it will stun you if given a slightest chance (and no riotborn alone won't save you). On madness you can get nice things like a 17 turn stun on tier-1 dungeons (wtf). Also the worst melee mobs seem to be able to stun/daze you like every other turn. But with movement infusions you are completely immune for x turns if used in advance which is easy enough with such a good tracking talent like track.
4) Murder dem dudes, much easier without -70 % all damage stun.
Re: Shadowstep tactical help
The description on Wild infusions makes it sound like it removes all statuses of its category; is that incorrect? I believe the wording is "...cure yourself of [physical/spell/mental] effects..." Does it actually just clear one per category?